The Tony conversations.

Last week, I was sick, had written my morose post, and was not in a good mind set. Bit of an understatement.

Tony called me that evening. Not as soon as he finished work – he’d rushed to his ex’s house so he could take his son skating. He called me after he dropped him off and was driving home.

He sounded so happy to be able to take him and that he was making good progress. He has a skating party with a friend next weekend and wants to be able to skate.

Tony’s love for his son shines through whenever he talks about him. He misses him so much. He takes him to school every morning he can, and sometimes has him overnight on a Saturday, but that’s it. I know it tortures him because he tells me so.

He said perhaps he would take him again the following night, after his shoot.

I asked Tony if I would be able to see him, since I was sure I’d be feeling better. He said he’d have to check because he was supposed to have his son overnight.

We were both exhausted so said our goodbyes and I went to sleep. The next day his shoot went late, he didn’t get a chance to see his son but he called me once he got home. He was in a foul mood as work didn’t go well, and he wasn’t going to come over.

It was fine; I was still sick and knew I needed my sleep more than anything else.

I figured I should just ask him some of the things in my head, since it was still spinning.

I asked about the parties he mentioned. He told me people weren’t allowed to bring guests, only people from work attended. So I asked him if he was able to bring me, would he? He paused and said yes, but there was hesitation in his voice. He told me he usually doesn’t mix work and personal life and never has.

I pushed; I asked him what if it wasn’t a work event? I asked him why I hadn’t met his best friend. We talked about it and he reminded me that given his friend’s travel schedule, even he barely saw him. I know this to be true. I said I wanted to meet him at some point.

I don’t remember how we got there, but I get on the topic of someone hitting on him. I ask him what he would do if he was at one of these parties and he got hit on. He says “I’d retreat and probably run away” and laughed that it wouldn’t happen.

I didn’t let it go. I push him and ask “what if someone hit on you, put themselves in your path, would you kiss back?”

Once he realizes I was seriously asking, he says he doesn’t know, he probably wouldn’t… maybe if there was lots of alcohol involved, perhaps. But it was unlikely.

And as much as I don’t love the answer (of course I would want to hear “oh no Ann, baby, I would say ‘stop, I have a girlfriend'”), I think it was honest. Could I say the same if I was hammered and someone hot hit on me that for sure I wouldn’t kiss them back? I ‘d like to think I wouldn’t but I’d be lying if I said anything other than “probably not.”

He then says “Ann, don’t worry! I want to see you and bruise you some more.”

I tell him it’s one of the things I was worried about, and he says “Well there’s not really any likelihood of that; if anything I’m more likely to get back with Mary” (his ex).

And…at that moment a large pit in my stomach forms and I stop breathing.

Trying to keep the hurt out of my voice I ask him to clarify what he means – is he actually saying it’s likely he is getting back with her? He says no, but if anything was going to happen it would more likely be that.

And while I know what he means, it’s all relative and he’s not saying it’s likely, of course that thought took hold…

He goes on to tell me just how much he misses the family unit, seeing his son regularly. He says he knows I’m right when I told him they would have the same arguments as before, but the holidays are hard for him because he will see her a lot and it reminds him of what he’s lost. He says how much he misses his son and how much he loves him.

I tell him he could have him around more if he had a place that had room for him. And that its better for his son to have two parents separately model healthy relationships than be together and fighting.

I tell him I wasn’t aware I needed to be worried about him getting back with her and he says “don’t worry it’s not at the point where you need to run someone over with your car”. He’s a funny one and it did make me laugh.

He asked to change the subject; talking about his son and what he misses makes him sad.

So I tell him I know he hasn’t decided about taking a vacation together but can we be together on New Years Eve no matter what. He says yes, of course, but he’d rather be away. We talk about the trip a little bit and we agree to gather some information to review the next night when I see him. We agree our criteria are heat, ocean, and decent food.

We talk about having sex on the beach. He tells me he’s hard and wants me to talk to him about what we’d do if we go to a sex club. So I do. I talk him through an orgasm – and love the sound he makes when he cums.

He tells me he wants to see me with another woman. He’s never had a threesome but wants one. He refers to the advice Hy gave him which was to have another woman who’s open to being with me as well – he says he wants someone who will work with him to fuck me.

We talk about pegging and his desire for me to peg him, but agree, laughing, the first time should probably not be in public. We talk about going to a sex club together on our own, first, so he can see what they are like. He tells me he’s got no qualms about fucking me in front of others. He’s worried about needing to use condoms at a club with others because he can’t stay hard with them. When I suggest Cialis he gets concerned about I think he needs Cialis – I reassure him it might just help with the condoms…and it would be fun to try on our own just to see.

I tell him I look forward to trying lots of things with him and that I’ll update some local swingers club profiles and figure things out. He laughs and says “Ah, my planner. You’re such a planner Ann, I love it.”

We say nice things to each other – how each other is smart and funny and how we really enjoy being together.

Then we say goodnight. I go to sleep feeling better about most of the things I was worried about before, but with the new nagging feeling that I could lose him any day to his ex. I know it’s not rational, but unfortunately, it took hold.

47 thoughts on “The Tony conversations.

  1. Just my thoughts here.. but his comment about if anything were to happen it would be with his ex, makes me think that because of their history is the only reason he said that. Not that it will happen, but that she’s the only one that might be in his path other than you that he would consider, or kiss. Follow me? He’s got some sorting to do yes, but in reading how he’s been making more of an effort to be with you in these last few weeks, I tend to think that yes, the holiday season is making him miss the family unit and or feel bad for his son that their marriage is broken. I feel that once this time passes and his thoughts and memories are not so sentimental with Christmas behind him, then likely his perspective may go back to what it was before. Not saying that he is leaning towards her of course. I think he realizes that he can’t go back to the beginning with her. In a sense, he’s grieving the loss of what once was with her.

    • I like this interpretation! It’s reasonable, covers all aspects, doesn’t white-wash him, but doesn’t demonize him.

      Props. (When it comes to men I either think they are Prince Charming or Charlie Sheen. No.middle.ground.)

      • Glad you like it… it’s pretty darn close to my interpretation as well.

        It’s hard sometimes in blog land to not see everything as one extreme or the other. And I certainly don’t always take the time to write all the nuances of things…which occasionally leaves holes.

        He’s NOT a bad guy. I have experienced douchebags and men who don’t care and Tony doesn’t fall into that category. There’s no question that in the spring he had real issues being available. It’s different now. Whether it’s different enough is really in my camp to figure out.

        But as some friends have told me, I have a guy who wants to spend time with me. I love being with him. He makes me laugh…physically and mentally we are great together. So why can’t I just enjoy it?

        • I dunno. I wish I could give advice, but my mind loves to poison my happiness with paranoia.

          I convinced myself that Beaut had a booty call with another girl based SOLELY on the fact that he wished me goodnight at midnight, yet Fbk Messenger showed he’d been online at 3am.

          Yes. Bc a booty call is THE most likely scenario. Right.

          So yeah. I look forward to seeing how you navigate your scenario with Tony which, at the very least, offers you some semi-legit reasons to occasionally worry.

          Best of luck! Imagine a world where our minds DON’T fuck with us?!

    • I totally follow you and think you are exactly right. I had another conversation with him (which I will write about) and said I hated thinking any day he could tell me he’s going back to her… and he said “Oh Ann, I don’t think about it that much, so why are you??”

  2. You keep right on pushing him like that and you won’t have him to worry about. What agenda do you have that’s giving you the sense of urgency and making you push someone you know can’t handle being pushed and backed into a corner.

    I adore you, Ann, but if you pushed me like that, yeah, I’d answer the best I could… but I’d be pissed about it in my head and I’d automatically “schedule” a moment to let you know that I don’t like being pushed, pressured, or cornered.

    You should never, ever, ask questions you really don’t want to hear the answers to; I’m sure his reply that he’d go back to his ex made you want to throw up and not think that she’s his ex for a reason. I know he makes you insane with the way he does things but if you can’t accept this and, in my opinion, keep making all of this about what you want, maybe you shouldn’t have started this up again.

    As men, most of us know that a woman needs to know where she stands but sometimes that’s not an easy thing to put on the table because, yes, we want to be with you but there’s other shit going on that has us feeling some other kind of way because we can’t resolve it or feel we have no choice but to deal with these other things, etc.. I’ve been in Tony’s position and the thing that ended what would have been a very good thing was that she kept pushing, asking the same questions repeatedly albeit in different ways. She drove me apeshit with “Me, me, me!” And forced me to ask her, “What about the things I have to do? They can’t be done by anyone else! Am I supposed to just drop everything for you and knowing that when the shit hits my fan, there won’t be one damned thing you can do to get me unburied from the ton of shit that’ll land on me?”

    “You are always asking, “What about me?” and now I’m asking you this same question… and like you, I expect an answer.”

    She didn’t have one – but I knew that already. I learned to despise women with an inflexible agenda; I don’t care much for women who can only think “me” and not “us.” And keep in mind, my dear Ann, that I’m easy to get along with. If something like this can piss me off, what do you think might go through Tony’s mind when you start leaning on him?

    Those enemies in your head are having a field day and you need to evict them or issue a gag order on them…

    • I re-read my post and know how it sounds. Reality is yes, I asked him those questions, but it was in a gentle and joking way and wasn’t aggressive.

      I feel like with him I expend a lot of energy trying to just be chill and accepting of how he is, his lack of communication and all that. I’ve been feeling really vulnerable and I pushed most of it away but there were a couple of things I did have to raise with him. This was one, and I talked to him about another more recently.

      I absolutely have no interest in having these conversations all the time and work very hard to ensure I don’t bring it up regularly.

      I’m deliberately not pushing him to give more than I think he can, but I can’t ignore how I feel ALL the time. Nor should I. And sometimes I need to tell him what I need to be secure – so that I don’t lean on him or push him. That’s the result. If I feel secure, I relax, and he has all the mental and physical space he needs.

      But I do know where you are coming from.

      • I hope so; even if you were joking, sometimes it isn’t funny to guys – we don’t see the humor but we feel the pressure. Yes, dear heart, it’s okay to want to be secure and to ask him how he’s gonna take care of that but if you push him or otherwise make him feel pressured to answer what is a necessary question, well, usually, women who do this wind up pushing the guy away.

        Do you really want this to happen? I thought “the plan” was for you to work with what’s available and enjoy the moments while reducing your normal stress levels? You want the whole enchilada where being secure is concerned but I think you need to be secure in “sections;” be secure that you two are kinda back together, be secure with the knowledge that he when he can be with you, he’s with you big time; be secure in the knowledge that he is trying while acknowledging that right now, HIS world doesn’t solely revolve around you – yet.

        He has shit to deal with, Ann, and if you in any way make it harder for him to get through his shit, it’s not gonna be good for either of you. Intelligently, you know this but emotionally, wow.

        Just wow. He might not be able to tell you how he’s really feeling but I can tell you how you make me feel just being a guy and I didn’t feel good. Like I said, if you pissed me off and made me feel boxed in, think about how it might make him feel. Your feelings are important but so are his!

        Stick with the plan, baby!

        • One thing that perhaps you didn’t elaborate in these posts if if you explained to Tony why you are asking him all of these questions. Do you ever talk about how insecure you are feeling? How scared you are? How hard it is for you, in particular, to deal with uncertainty? How important it is for you to get the little reassurances of status in a relationship (ie, being brought to parties?). Your insecurities about being alone? Perhaps you did go into this with him, and not just make it about his non-committal behaviors? This may be moot if Tony doesn’t like to talk about your feelings, but if he is open to it, it at least takes the spotlight of his perceived shortcomings and onto your struggle. You two will need to work together to find the middle path that helps you feel more secure, because it is not going to come by pressuring him, nor is it going to come from you swallowing your feelings. There has to be a different way. Are there other areas of your life that drive you batty or make you feel insecure when they are unsure? Your relationship to your son? Parents? A relationship with a colleague who isn’t a great communicator about where he or she is in a collaboartion with you, leaving you to guess where they are at? If so, talk about these situations with Tony.

          • He’s been pretty good about hearing about my feelings. Whenever I’ve expressed dismay that I know he doesn’t like talking about things, he’s said I can always tell him how I feel. He’s actually pretty good in those moments.

            And yes, I did explain that I was feeling vulnerable and that some of the things he said / didn’t say triggered me and that being sick and alone was making it worse. I also told him about the things I thought were going really well.

            I have another post coming up which is the second conversation we had which I feel allowed me to say what I needed to say, wasn’t about his failings but about how I needed to know where his head was at.

            And it was good.

            This is great advice; thank you.

        • I like the idea of being secure in sections and it’s actually how I’ve managed the past 10 days. I did have one more conversation – no need to chastise me again – and feel better. You’re right… I let him go and he came back to me. He’s eager to see me and he finds time for me. We’ve talked almost every single day – on the phone, no less – and he’s been consistent in what he says about how he feels.

          I definitely don’t want to make things harder for him and spend a lot of effort reining in the things I may have done in prior relationships. I am working on trusting him that things are different now than before.

          I scored a lot of points with him last weekend when he texted me on a night he was going to come over and said he just couldn’t – I didn’t give him a hard time at all, said it was completely up to him and I knew I would see him soon. He told me the next day how much he appreciated my not giving him a hard time about it. I said “well when you don’t want to come over why would I push you” and he was all over that – he said “it’s not that I didn’t want to… I always want to see you but I was exhausted and needed to decompress after the day I had”.

          I guess I should write more about those good things, too 🙂

          • Yeah, hearing about the good things would keep me from pinching your ass hard, Ann. I just don’t want you to fuck this up and wind up rebounding or feeling miserable so I need your best effort here, okay? The goal is a happy Ann and not one with the insane tenants in her head.

            One step at a time, one moment at a time and making the best of them – then repeat.

        • Though maybe it’s not you reacting as any guy, but you reacting as ‘kdaddy, with your own emotional baggage?
          Because if just reading about someone else’s conversation triggers such a response in you, it’s not just about Tony, is it?
          🙂
          And it’s Ok, we all bring our own history to the comment table, that’s what makes it valuable 😉

  3. Excellent advice there from kdaddy23. I have been in a similar position to you Anne, I found myself wanting answers to similar questions. Ask yourself this, if he can’t freely give you the thing you’re looking for is it perhaps because he’s not yet free to do so? Right person, wrong time perhaps. If you date someone who has not yet fully separated from his ex and has children you will always be further down the pecking order than them. That’s just how it is and you have to be big enough to accept it. A sense of loyalty to provide for his child and therefore the mother too, plus he has confused feelings for her because he’s still having to keep in touch with her… I would say he has some way to go to separate himself from the relationship. You on the other hand have achieved that from yours and are ready to move forward. Here is the disparity. You have two choices. the first is to sit on your hands, stop overthinking and just enjoy the time the two of you have together don’t be tempted to start thinking about his ex etc, it’s not your circus and they are not your monkeys. Thats’s very hard to do especially if you have to wait and watch whether he may end up going back. then all your investment in a potential relationship is fruitless. That’s emotionally very draining. The other option you have ( Which is what I did) is to walk away. Give him the time and space do deal with the divorce. You will both benefit and so will your potential relationship in the long run. It can be truly toxic to be involved with someone who is divorcing and I do think it rather selfish of someone to want a new relationship while they haven’t fully extracted themselves from the first. Success rates for long term relationships post divorce are low which I suspect may be due to timing. If you do want to be with each other, don’t let the start be clouded by the past, It’s not great, I speak from experience.

    • Thank you for the comment. Yes, he’s still working his way out, and it’s been slow progress for him.

      I don’t think I’m wasting my time, because the time with him is wonderful and not being with him is worse than being with him in the way he can be here for me.

      I probably can’t wait forever for him to get sorted, but I also probably need to reframe it so I don’t see it as waiting. It’s difficult for me but if I can get to a place where I take each day as it comes, and enjoy the fact that I have a guy who I really enjoy being with, who loves to be with me… then that’s not such a bad thing, is it?

  4. Right, I didn’t read comments, so maybe someone wrote that already but… My kid came home the other day, said their grade in science was 1.5 % higher than their friend. Was I happy/proud about it.
    I replied that it depended on what the friend’s grade was. If it was a 0, then no, if it was a 95, then yes, of course! In this case, it turns out it was the latter, so I rejoiced with my kid and was happy.

    All this to say, you’re a planner, you work with numbers… you know very well that what he said could be interpreted as the chances of me going back to my ex are below 5%, but the chances of me returning a kiss if someone hit on me are below that, yet somehow, your mind seems to hear there’s a 50/50 chance I’ll go back to my ex.

    Can you explain me why? Or rather, can you figure out why for yourself? Because I don’t really need the answer, though I’ll admit that reading your journey helps me figure out my own shit 😉
    (sorry for the language, it’s soooo much easier and feels soooo good to be swearing in a different language! 😉 )

    Hugs Ann! Things will be fine, just breathe, relax, enjoy! 🙂

    • Yes, you’re quite right my dear. I got myself to a place that wasn’t accurate at all. I know it’s not highly likely he’s going back but until his divorce is settled, I suppose there’s still a chance, however small.

      • If you keep focusing on *that* chance, then you’ll help him get there, as in a self-fulfilling prophecy!
        (Though I read in a comment you’re going on vacation, so yay for that 🙂 ).

  5. Ann I used to play these hypothetical “what if” games with my exes. They always end badly and with both of us feeling frustrated. It’s like setting yourself up to fail. You don’t need to do that. Be the confident woman you are. Exude if even if you don’t always feel it. You are an amazing woman and he is lucky to have you. Don’t ask questions that put yourself in submissive position (not talking about sex lol 😜).

    • It really was a one-time-only thing because I absolutely know it’s not a good approach and doesn’t end well. There was no blowback from it and our conversation ended very well 🙂

      I’m confident in who I am and what I bring to the table… I had a hiccup in vulnerability but feel mostly past that now.

      Thank you 🙂

  6. Kdaddy is harsh but he’s right. I, too, have been in the position of wanting clarity in my position in a relationship and it backfired. BIG TIME. You are bigger than this, Ann. Even though you are human and you have insecurities (like any normal person), I agree with totallycaroline above that you should still exude confidence. It’s sexy and it is who you are in any other arena.
    Now, as for Tony’s comment that he’s more like to go back to his ex — Is it possible that he’s saying that the likelihood is as remote as that?? Just a question.
    You need a night out with a girlfriend to get your groove back, sister. xoxo

    • Yeah, Takara, sometimes Ann needs some tough love and I’m never going to sugar coat things for her. I want her to think and not let her emotions drive the bus all the time… so I give it to her straight and uncensored because she needs the honesty more than a pat on her cute ass.

    • I am bigger than this. You’re right. I’m still confident about who I am and what I give him and I rocked some awesome outfits for him recently which I know has him fantasizing about afterwards 🙂

      It’s a remote chance I think. Well, he didn’t go back to her in the 3 months we weren’t together. And there was nothing stopping him then. I need to keep reminding myself of that. And if he eventually does go back, while I’ll be crushed I know it’s not about me. (you might need to remind me of that if and when it happens)

      I have re-filled my social calendar and am working on getting that groove back!

      xoxo

  7. This post, these comments are like looking in the mirror. I’ve been there and done that. Thing is, usually while I’m backing them up against the wall, I already know the answer to the only relevant questions- I want to be free to fall in love. Will you take care of my heart, are you ready to love another? Today I know that when healthy, well adjusted minds ask the question the answer to that question in whole or in part is no. There are some who in spite of this can carry on like a butterfly confident in his flight. That was never me. The glaring “no” always seemed to suck me down a hole while I tried to define it into something more palatable. Tony is still processing his stuff. He is at the point of needing moments to let go of that and experience something outside of loss and the consequences of separation. That is you. Asking questions right now is pointless. Be kind to yourself Ann.

    • Thank you Cheri. I had a similar image with him, thinking here I am giving him my heart and is he carrying it gently and taking care of it?

      But you’re right. Asking those kinds of questions is not my style. I don’t think people give you really honest answers in those situations anyway, because we usually say what the other wants to hear. Tony was honest with me, so I give him credit for that.

      But I am absolutely committed to showing him how great relationships can be.

  8. Ann,

    I can’t help but think Tony is treating this like a “friends with benefits” scenario.

    My red flag is him not bringing you more into his personal life. (Meeting friends, parties, etc.) It’s almost like he’s thinking that If word gets out among his friends and eventually back to his Ex about you and him being in a relationship, the door closes on that part of his life. That appears to be an uncomfortable position for him internally. Regardless if its due to feelings for his son, his Ex or mixture of both. For now its easier for him to consider you as “Just a friend” and not have to deal with explanations (to friends, Ex or his son) or commitments (to you) that go along with a relationship.

    In my humble opinion, until he closes that door himself, he not going to change. I think if you expect anything more from him for the time being you are fooling yourself.

    You have two options, stay on and try to enjoy the “Tony Ride” or exit this ride (even if its for a little while) and see how it pans out.

    All the best,
    Coop

    • I hear you Coop, I really do. I will hold my concern until we have a real example of something that I feel he could have invited me to and didn’t. For example last year he went to a friends Super bowl party and didn’t invite me. Now if the same thing happened this year, I’d be pissed. But the work events are okay. He doesn’t do a ton of socialization so it’s not like he’s going to friends house parties regularly and not bringing me along. It’s been a while since he’s seen his best friend (who does not about me).

      I would love for him to be sorted with his divorce but it will take a while. I can choose to be worried every day that it’s driving his behavior with me, but that’s counter productive. I’m not going to stop seeing him right now because I enjoy our time together and with this recent exception, I’ve been in a great headspace.

      I’m not fooling myself. I’m accepting who he is, and I also want to see some progress. What that looks like I’m not sure… but I think it will be those moments where things feel different from before. Time will tell!!

      I appreciate the perspective; thank you.

  9. Of course the thought took hold! I don’t think he said it in the way you heard it though. If you think of it from a different angle, he was telling you that it is very highly unlikely he would respond to being hit on by another woman. You know how unhappy he was with Mary. Unhappy enough to leave a situation that houses that which he loves most! His son! It is also unlikely he would return to Mary. Maybe there is a way you could help encourage him to relocate to living somewhere there could be a home for his son with him as well? If you researched places for him and subtly got the information to him, would you be able to separate your feelings enough to not be hurt if he isn’t receptive to your help??

    It’s about the boy Ann, not the ex. Which is actually quite a wonderful statement about Tony. I truly believe my ex doesn’t care much about our children, until there is something in it for him. It still hurts as the kids are now adults, and are seeing the true colors of the man. I don’t like seeing them have to deal with such realities…..

    • It’s about the boy, absolutely. Maybe a bit of the comfort of familiarity with her but that’s not the primary driver.

      I will work on it bit by bit to find time to suggest gently at the right time things that may help him.

What do you think?