We met. F*cked. Talked.

I’m going to preface this my saying I know many of you will disagree with what I did – and didn’t – do last night. I know this could be a mistake. It could delay what’s inevitable.

I know all this. You are of course welcome to tell me anyway.

I went for dinner with a male friend and former colleague. I’ve written about him before, but we have been platonic since then. We started with drinks with two other friends – I had three dark and stormy’s, and I got some good career advice and lots of support.

Then he and I went for dinner. When asked, I said I wanted either a good steak or Italian food. He chose a very expensive steak house with a great lounge atmosphere. When I came back from the bathroom after we arrived, he was wrapping up a work call. I sat down and after he hung up the phone, he came over to my chair, leaned down, grasped my chin in his hand, tilted my head up, and gave me a gentle but firm kiss on the lips. He said “I’ve missed you and just felt like doing that”.

We split a bottle of red wine. He expressed displeasure at my later departure to meet Tony (something along the lines of “he’s crashing MY date”). But I explained what was going on and said I had to meet Tony that night.

The dinner made Tony’s expected delay painless…I didn’t even notice he was later than expected. He picked me up and we drove to my house. I was not sober but I was certainly aware of what I was saying and doing. We got caught up with the last few weeks. His trip was difficult; he didn’t get along with his brother.

He wasn’t feeling well. I suggested we move to couch or bed and he chose bed. Not because he was all ready to have sex, but it’s comfy.

We chatted more about his trip and my trip and my job. I said I missed him and he said he missed me too – I expressed surprise at this and told him he’d never once before told me he missed me, or that he needed me. He told me he thought about “our sex” when he was away, and that he’s never before fantasized about someone he was with. It reminded me of a meme I saw on Twitter that said “if you fantasize about the girl you are dating, marry her”. I chose not to share that gem with him.

He discovered my garters. And slowly went from just hanging out, to his very much enjoying the feeling of sliding his hand under the straps, to me on my knees, garters in place, and him f*cking me from behind. It was rough and wonderful.

Afterwards, I don’t remember exactly what verbal opening he gave me, or exactly the order of our discussion, but I said all the things I needed to say. My points included:

  • I was really angry that I didn’t hear from him for 24 hours after he arrived.
  • I needed to hear back from him in the email I sent him when I was away. And was disappointed he didn’t make the time.
  • I was surprised to not hear from him the entire time he was away, especially since he missed me and was thinking about me.
  • While I understand the place he’s in (I think), I don’t want to project my past experience on him, but I do need someone who can be there for me when I need them.
  • I recognize he and I are in different places but I’m not willing to wait forever to get what I need in a relationship.
  • Although I now have every other week free, it’s not that I want to spend every night with him. I need time alone and time with my friends that doesn’t involve him.
  • I don’t want to just be a convenience (yes, Will, I used your term). I want him to do things for me even when they aren’t convenient.
  • There are things about his personality that I adore, and haven’t found in anyone else. I love spending time with him, I look forward to exploring more with him, and I don’t want to say goodbye to him. But I have needs that I want met.

It wasn’t the monologue it may appear to be. It was a conversation. About the non-response to my vacation email, he said all of his (failed) texts to me were that I shouldn’t waste my time emailing him, things will be fine and I should just enjoy my trip. He didn’t respond my email because he didn’t want me wasting time emailing him when I was away and he knew he would see me just a couple of days later.

He said he felt really bad about not being able to see me before he left on his trip.

He didn’t make excuses for not contacting me while away, but described what his days and nights were like and I knew it was really about him trying to just have time for himself. As I said in my previous post‘s comments, it doesn’t make it better that he didn’t get in touch, but it wasn’t malicious or an attempt to send me a sign.

He told me he didn’t mind being exclusive right away because he knew there was nobody else he wanted to date. He said he “loved everything about” me. He expressed concern that he didn’t want to “hold me back” from any other opportunities (somewhere in the conversation earlier I had mentioned I turned down some offers…not sure how it was relevant to anything but I said it). That’s when I said I didn’t want to be with anyone else.

He reminded me that he does do things just for me that aren’t convenient for him. Coming to my party was “highly inconvenient” and yet he came. It’s true, it was.

So.

One the one hand, he didn’t say “can’t give you want you want and need, sorry” nor did he say he didn’t like me enough to try. Could be just because he’s passive, I know.

As a girlfriend said to me today, this issue was situational (as in, there was a situation that prompted it), it’s not necessarily systemic. And yes, while he doesn’t communicate as much as I would naturally want, he shows his “love” through other love languages. I had told him a while back I needed a bit more communication throughout a day, and he met that need. I didn’t tell him I expected to hear from him when he was away. I had told him I was getting used to the thought of not hearing from him.

On the other hand, I know it’s likely nothing will change, and my not ending it last night probably just delays the inevitable. I’m going to take it a day at a time and see how I feel.

0 thoughts on “We met. F*cked. Talked.

  1. This is a day-to-day endeavor, Ann. No one here should tell you what to do but rather what they would do if given the same set of circumstances.

    Being one who over communicates and desires both give and receive contact, I might have ended the relationship at that point. It is easy for me to say this having never dated as an adult, but I know that in my marriage, I try to express myself through verbal and written communication when away from her. I want her to know that I am thinking about her. I want her to know that she is on my heart. If she is struggling with something, I want to be a sounding board, even if we are separated by miles. I want to hear from her in what she is happy about, to rejoice along with her.

    With a few exceptions, I even send her notes when I am out on a multi-hour bicycle ride just to assuage any of her concerns as to my early demise while on the back-country roads.

    Only you know where your heart is. To me, it didn’t sound as if you were ending the relationship with Tony. I was wondering what his reaction would be when confronted with your needs and what has been bothering you during your/his time away. Would he have some rule (a’la “labels”) about his girlfriend needing contact from him? Would he not receive the concerns that you raised? I am proud that you didn’t hold back. You did what was right for you (and, ultimately your relationship).

    Now, you just watch what he does with it.

    • I reserve the idea of you being a convenience (yes, the term seems applicable in the scope of Tony’s behavior and actions) as being central to what he has been doing. I certainly hope that he changes, but I will wait and observe, not holding my breath.

    • He received them and heard them. As you say, let’s see what he does with it. I did also tell him I don’t want to continue to demand something he can’t give me – it’s frustrating for both of us.

      So we shall see.

      • I am proud of you that you took the risk and told him all of this. It was a bold step and you quite resoundingly put the ball in his court.

        Whether it is choice or if he is incapable of meeting your needs, it remains to be determined by him. How much patience do you have left (after consuming so much since December)?

  2. I was kinda thinking you were going to fuck the first guy ;). I can tell you that almost all of my “relationships” have started with them saying that we don’t need a label because he “isn’t seeing anyone else” or he doesn’t need to deal with ex’s and moving on because it is “not like I’m going anywhere…” And that was just that…it was fine in the beginning but it just never went anywhere, because they were happy with me being awfully convenient and having super low expectations. I ran across a quote that spoke to me and may to you “he is made up entirely of your excuses…once you stop making excuses for him he will disappear from your life.” That was totally true for me, and I hope that Tony shapes up for you. You need more, and you’re not wrong to expect it.

    • That’s a great quote. I don’t want to constantly be making excuses, most certainly not. It’s a fine line between understanding and justifying and I know I don’t always find the right balance.

      I understand, but I don’t like it. And I’m certainly going to reach the point that it doesn’t matter whether I understand, the facts are the facts. I hope I don’t have to get there…

          • I think it might be wise to set a time limit again to reevaluate. I know for my personal experience I’d reach the point where I was about to crack and he’d give me excuses or say he’d do better or blame it on me somehow and so we’d go back to status quo for a while and back and forth until I thought perhaps I’d gone mad. Be clear about your expectations and if they are not being met, take the steps to find another way to meet your needs. I don’t want to see you waiting around either… The waiting is the worst 🙁

  3. It sounds like you had a really great talk and that he didn’t bolt or start minimizing your thoughts and feelings. Your friends statement about this being situational sounds pretty spot on. For some reason, I see him half in/half out of the dog house :-). I guess only time will tell which way this goes?

  4. Exactly as it should be. I remember wishing I could give you patience. This doesn’t have to go full speed ahead. If it does, you will miss so much of the beauty of the beginning of the trip. Take some deep breaths and relax. Your active mind has taken you on quite the roller coaster of emotions over the last couple weeks.

  5. There is so much change occurring all at once in your life right now, Ann. Giving yourself a little more time with Tony to see how the relationship progresses and evolves does not seem like a horrible idea or a fail. You talked, told him how you felt, and hopefully now that you are both home he will improve and step-up his efforts.

    • Thank you Janelle. I’m literally back and forth about what the right thing is to do, just depending on the hour. Right now I’m in the “there’s no way he’s going to give me what I need” camp.

  6. I don’t disagree with what you did/didn’t do at all – it’s easy for us to say “get rid!” when we’re not in the room. Sounds like you did well advocating for yourself and your needs, and now it’s wait and see what he does with it.

  7. I knew this was how the night would go because I think you are attracted to Tony a great deal…I guess that thought I had is that you didn’t tell him you expected to hear from him but you were furious that you didn’t…Yet, I think it’s good that you did forgive him. As we all know, no one is perfect, so I think it’s figuring out if you can live with Tony’s imperfections….And that’s what you are trying to figure out (my hunch is you can’t, but prove me wrong!)

  8. He’s either genuine and sincere when he says the nice things to you about missing you and loving everything about you, or he’s just full of bullshit. If it’s the former, then the issue is around some of his behaviours that don’t meet your expectations, that’s something that can be worked on. My friend said to me once – nobody ticks all the boxes, you have to decide what your absolute priority boxes are, and don’t compromise on those, the other boxes are where you might need to compromise/let things go.

    It still feels like this one could go either way for you, from the outside at least I don’t think there is any inevitability.

  9. I don’t want to give you advice – nor do I ever mean to sound negative, so I hesitate to even comment.

    As a person that freaks out over commitment (I’m the married one, oddly enough), and hates relationship/emotional talks, you would drive me nuts. Perhaps it is this aspect of myself that reacts the way I do to these thoughts.

    While I over analyze, constantly, I try very hard to not put any expectations on, or dissect, anyone. You don’t know his motivations unless he tells you, and you frequently work yourself up to “worst case” scenarios and feel insecure in your place in his life. You don’t know his emotional connection unless he tells you. I understand the problem is he doesn’t tell you much, but he isn’t going to change that aspect of him.

    My husband is very much like how you describe yourself (opposites attract?), and the compromise is he tells me what he needs and I either meet those emotional needs because I want a relationship with him or I don’t and he accepts that I won’t (we met somewhere in the middle BEFORE we got married: I communicate more frequently, even stupid “I’m thinking of you” texts, and he doesn’t take it personally or create a problem where there isn’t one if I’m not as reassuring of his status in my life that he so desperately craves).

    You are an amazing, well sought after woman, who seems to be independent on top of that – that is the validation that you need to focus on, especially considering that you are involved in a man who is going to an incredibly rough transition in life that you knew about before you got emotionally invested in. Perhaps you need to give yourself space (which doesn’t mean taking a step back, just maybe staying still for a moment).

    I feel you are very brave opening yourself up the way you do here, and I also understand as a blogger that the full story isn’t always shown through snippets of posts.

    • Thank you so very much for the thoughtful comment. I read it and it spawned the post that’s going up tomorrow.

      I know he’s very different from me. He doesn’t like to talk about emotions, and I could talk forever. He likes silence in a way I don’t. Doesn’t seem to need reassurance the way I do.

      I’m not sure what is going to happen, but I’m pretty sure it’s over. I’m not optimistic he will take the path forward with me.

  10. “He said he “loved everything about” me. He expressed concern that he didn’t want to “hold me back” from any other opportunities (somewhere in the conversation earlier I had mentioned I turned down some offers…not sure how it was relevant to anything but I said it). ”

    heh… that’s almost as bad as saying:
    “It’s not you, it’s me…” when you break up with someone.

    From a guys’ point of view and based on the context of your blog, I’d say he’s done, he’s just not man enough to tell you.

    Stop wasting your time, you’ve expressed your needs and wants to him enough time and he’s still not strong enough or willing to commit mentally/emotionally for you and I doubt he ever will.

    I’d tell him to F – off, but I suspect that’s exactly what he wants you to do…

    Best of luck!

  11. Usually I lurk…but I did want to comment this time to say I’m rooting for you, whatever the outcome. I enjoy reading your blog, and look forward to your posts. Your insights are so thoughtful; your intelligence and empathy shine through in your words.

    It always triggers warning bells for me if a guy says he doesn’t want to hold me back from finding or being with someone else. It’s a red flag that they’ve lost interest, I think. I mean, otherwise, I believe a man wouldn’t want to share the woman in his life (swinging situations of a sexual nature aside) and would not want to see her go. I think human beings are inherently selfish; we want what we want and we will usually only try to minimize the casualties to others on the way to getting it, whatever that looks like. And we don’t just let people go without a fight.

    I had an ex who was married and when he was “done” with me he said just that, as though that might have lessened the blow to me about him wanting to end things: “I don’t think I can be the man you should have right now and I don’t want to hold you back from other opportunities”. He didn’t even think he was ending things with me but I knew. It hurt but there were better options out there…

  12. I haven’t had much time to comment here but I still have been reading you.
    First of all, I am really sorry about all that it’s happening. As someone else said, I do understand that the whole story is difficult to ‘explain’ or let it shine through a single blog post, so I do believe that there is much more to it, so my opinion is of course, solely based on what I read.

    Okay, I am afraid I have to agree with Coop – probably because I do not have too much faith in people either, and even though I know no one is perfect, I do think that everyone can / will do an effort if it’s really important for them.

    I ALSO thought that there could be an alternate explanation for why Tony is not putting enough effort: The fact that you are putting all the effort yourself. The fact that you are ok with everything he says and/or does, even though it doesn’t meet your needs. By doing that, you’d never know what he’d actually do should you actually give up on him. Would he actually be afraid of losing you and start fighting for you? (and yes, that’s a possibility, but of course, that’s something we don’t know for sure). Unfortunately, I see many people who take people for granted.

    I was not, however, a fan of Tony’s responses, particularly: “He didn’t respond my email because he didn’t want me wasting time emailing him.” – This sounds so wrong in so many ways… Obviously, you are the one to decide what to do with your own time, but still he could simply answer the email and write that you shouldn’t worry about replying back. Ultimately, you are the one to decide if replying back to him is a waste or not of your time. I am sorry but this has just put me incredibly off.

    Also… I do not know what to make from this: “He expressed concern that he didn’t want to “hold me back” from any other opportunities.” For me, it sounds more like: He is concerned that you are giving up on other things for something (this relationship) that he probably is not 100% sure of. And basically, he is saying: It’s alright if you have other people. And again, all the exclusivity coming from him, still sounds more like a convenience than anything else.

    Also, the excuses about the texts… I know they do sound reasonable, given that he was traveling and all. It’s just that, within the overall context, I just am not able to buy it.

    Sorry if this sounded all a bit depressing / harsh / sad / devoid of hope , but it’s just my opinion , and of course, I am outside so I don’t mean to suggest, by any means, that I can be accurate whatsoever.

    Then again, good luck, Ann 🙂

  13. I have to agree with Tinam81 and Coop.
    The whole “I don’t want to hold you back” comment really stuck out for me. Although he is separated I feel like Tony is, in many ways, behaving as a married man does in an affair. The whole giving so little but making slight improvements as issues are pointed out…just enough to placate you so he doesn’t lose what he has but doesn’t really give too much (he improved the communication but then goes silent while away and connects with you 24 hrs after his return).

    I think I am feeling triggered here because my affair partner was so much like Tony. Each time I voiced my needs he rose a little bit to meet them so I would stay where I was but he could never fill all the needs. He would tell me he loves me and then say “but I don’t want to hold you back” and that he wanted to see me happy..but not enough to be what I needed. He and Tony so make me think of the guys in the book “he’s just not that into you”….if a guy wants to talk to you, he will take the time to contact you. These guys want the benefits without there being expectations.

    For the record, if I were in your shoes I would have wanted to tell Tony that I just need more than he can offer at this time and that it’s time I move on. However, I know for a fact I would have done exactly what you did. It’s hard to give up when he is willing to try a bit and only you will truly know when you have had enough.

  14. I can understand 100% why you did what you did. I would have done the same thing. Just continue to keep your guards up around your heart and take it one day at a time with no expectations for it going any further than where you are right now. It’s impossible to give up when you feel like there’s still s chance and hope…and there is. It could easily go either way at this point. I want to be pleasantly surprised for Tony’s sake, but I’m not going to hold out hope. He’s still in the doghouse in my book, and has a lot of making up to do for his behavior, but I’m not sure he really understands that or will be able to give you what you need for that.

  15. What ever may be the outcome , I am hoping it will be great But I am really happy for you because you said things which you had to and I am sure in a very Sober way !

  16. There is a slight discomfort with the phrase. ‘Emailing him is a waste of time’
    It is the least a person can do for those they love, cherish and want. Just go and leave a candle burning has a change of extinguishing.

    Still I do not think it is ever easy on how to go with things. Even if it was the second time you were in this position you are dealing with another man. Who reacts differently.

    Ann do the best one can do, follow your gut and heart but asking for a smile on your face is never to much with your heart bumping. You are in it together it cannot be done alone.

    Big hugs

  17. Actually, I think you did quite well. Your points were made and discussed. And honestly, you had separate neck to back vacations and I can understand his point that he just wanted you to enjoy vacation without thinking about home stuff, the way it used to be before this age of constant communication from anywhere.

    yes, he dropped the ball on communicating that point of view.

    But after 2+ weeks of limited/no communication ideas occur then you start to believe ideas and spiral out of control.

    I say you’re in the money, give it some time under “normal” conditions and re-assess.

    Remember, men and women are wired differently, including our communication needs. So his extra efforts may not be 100% matching your needs, but how much fo they? Are they true “must haves” for you?

    • For me its situational. If there was someone who was otherwise very communicative and moving things forward as much as I was…if they went on a vacation and said they were turning off their phone, but as soon as they landed reached out with “i’ve missed you and can’t wait to see you”… it would be different.

      The lack of his being there for me when I needed him, because of job / child stuff, and his subsequent lack of communication, highlighted the place he’s at and what he’s able to give me. I can’t ignore it, although if those things hadn’t happened I would probably manage to continue the way we had while being only slightly discontent with what I was getting from him.

    • I see it slightly differently but I think the result is the same – we judge ourselves on our intentions, while others judge us on our actions. Small statement but I think it’s rather profound.

  18. Oh Ann.

    I hate fucking passive guys. They are now a hard limit for me. I can’t deal.

    I hope that you’re getting what you need and obviously what your own hard limits are. Ugh. My ex was useless at communicating. He said something along those lines too (that he didn’t want to hold me back) so i lost it and said fine, you won’t be we’re done.

    • I will write an update post shortly, but we did talk last night and I said what I needed to say. He was very honest back. He’s not a player or a douche…and not just stringing me along. I think I know how I want to move forward, and it will be helpful to him and to me, to validate if what I feel about him is real, or if it’s a repeat of what I did with my ex. More to come…

      …and thank you.
      xoxo

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