A round up of the horses in the stable

A reader commented on a post recently that there were men in my life who were better for me than the Dog Trainer. I had to stop and think about who the heck those might be.

There hasn’t been much action on the “other guy” front lately but I suppose they are skulking around. Figured I would do a round up of those in the stable, but some have gotten loose.

The Comedian is in touch every few days. We had a nice lunch on a workday a month ago, which he initiated. I know he wants to see me again but he’s been rehearsing in a different city. Our schedules are not that compatible. But he’s not written off yet. I was hoping he would come to the house party (which I subsequently cancelled) but he was away. Turns out my much younger half-brother is a huge fan of his. He would have been smitten and I know it would have been good for the comedian’s ego.

The Lawyer is still around as well, somewhat. For a while we were texting pretty regularly. He would get frustrated because I wasn’t free when he was. Shortly after I’d met Andrew, the Lawyer and I made plans for him to come by one night after my son fell asleep. However his trial ended early and he wanted to come by at 6pm which obviously wasn’t a great time.

He went silent after that and I gave him his space. A few weeks ago I texted him to say hello and he said “crazy busy baby. Told ya. Sometimes I just don’t feel like answering or can’t. Muah. I’ll keep trying you when I’m free and ur never available. But will keep trying.”

Then he reached out to me last week. Told him I was sick. Then when I decided to not to to the gang bang night I texted him to say I was free, but that if he was no longer interested I understood. I did not expect the mini shit storm he unleashed:

“Dude. I messaged you. Enough with the drama. I’m in trial. Enough with the not interested stuff. Enough already.”

It went on from there. I stared at my phone and after the FetLife guy thinking I was too cynical the day before, it gave me pause. Perhaps I need to be even more careful about what I say. I wanted to give the Lawyer an easy out in case he had moved on. I figured he had. After all, it’s been a while.

I was trying to save myself from a bit of pain. But instead, it came across as drama.

I told him I was crystal clear and he wouldn’t hear that from me again. He said he would see whether it would work later that night; that he had a late conference meeting. Then we talked a little bit about his trial, which is lasting more than a month.

I didn’t hear from him until 11:30pm that night so it was just too late. I guess he is interested, just crazy busy. When my schedule frees up in December when Will is back and has our son, the Lawyer is away on vacation. Such is life.

Dan, I truly cannot figure out. Part of me thinks for sure he’s got a girlfriend, the other thinks he’s just a busy recluse. I admit to pursuing him a bit via text message. After we had our night together, I sent him a text every other day or so, then waited a week, then texted him again. Got a response, and then later he spontaneously phoned me. We had a fun chat and he told me he had found someone to fix my car but it would take a while before this guy was ready.

After that, he proactively texted me to see how I was feeling. But I was getting frustrated with the inconsistency. I said, point blank “Do you want to see me again and if so are you going to ask?”

Now. I KNOW that there is really only one answer to the question. It was dumb to ask. He said, simply, “of course”. I told him I was free on Friday, he said he would check his schedule, and as of now it’s radio silence.

He doesn’t strike me as someone who is a player with lots of women around. But he’s definitely not so into me he needs to talk to me every day!! So, like the others, it is what it is. I know the moment I figure he’s gone for good, I will get a text or a phone call. I suppose I should go ahead and find someone else to fix my car.

Finally, there is Hot Actor. Unlike Dan, I’m pretty sure he is navigating several women. Originally he was the one who gave me his number (again) and suggested we get together. Then I told him I got sick and our plans to see each other on a Saturday morning were foiled.

He texts me every morning and we chat briefly. He called me to talk one day that I was at home.

One morning he sent his “good morning” text. I responded, then he sent another “good morning” text. I said “you already said that :P” and his response was that he was talking and texting. Hmm. The thing that went through my mind was actually that he was probably sending his good morning texts to all the women in his phone.

Am I wrong? Too cynical? I suppose.

I told him I was free on Friday night and he said he didn’t know his schedule yet (this was in the same couple of hour period that I had the same conversation with the Cynic Hater).

I said I was free the next night (Tuesday). Tuesday morning we had this exchange:

  • Him: Good morning! How much time do you have tonight?
  • Me: I’m free at 5 ish and would want to be home by 10 so I can get a good sleep.
  • Him: Ok. Let’s leave it to another night so you can regain your strength.
  • Me: I am okay but why doesn’t that work – too early?
  • Him: Just a little.
  • Me: What would work for you?
  • Him: We can leave it for another night when you have time. No worries.
  • Me: Okay. I had a babysitter for tonight so didn’t want it to go to waste. But no problem. Can you let me know what might normally work for you so I know for next time?

Radio. Silence.

My gut tells me he’s got others (which is fine, it’s not like I don’t), but then simultaneously I worry I’m being too cynical. I will just let him come to me at this point.

I would really like a date with a man on Friday night. I’m not sure I will be up for it since I have a big work event on Thursday, but COME ON. Why is this so difficult?

Worst case I could go to that swingers club, since a couple (!) has asked if I would be there on Friday. Hmm. I’ve always liked Unicorns, perhaps I should just be one (and if you don’t know that reference, I’m sorry).

There are two men I’m chatting with on FetLife who are good distractions, but neither are looking for anything more than a casual sexual relationship. However one seems to have many characteristics I’m looking for. We may meet for coffee or a drink after work one night. I’m absolutely NOT going to have a first meeting of any other sort.

I am also going solo to a work event next week. It’s hosted by one of my two bosses and has all of my peers in our division as well. It’s a great night at his house and followed by dinner at one of the top restaurants in the city. I asked a gay male friend from high school but he’s not free.

This is one of the first times I’ve really felt weird not having a date. Anyone interested?

And when I am allowed to reach out to Andrew again? It’s been approximately 10 days. Twice recently I have opened my BBM app and then closed it again. I suppose if I never reach out, he never will, and then I really do have my answer about how much he liked me. I don’t think that’s an answer I want to have.

0 thoughts on “A round up of the horses in the stable

  1. I would probably wait another couple of weeks to reach out to Andrew. Maybe closer to Christmas to say “Merry Christmas”. It all depends on the goal/purpose for reaching out. I do believe he will respond to you, and I do believe he likes/liked you, I just think he is not looking for a relationship and I think he has a much stronger connection to his FWB than he let on and isn’t looking to let her go, which a full on relationship would require. That’s my completely uneducated guess/gut instinct about Andrew.

    As for the cynic piece, I don’t feel you are too cynical, I feel you are perceptive.

    • I’m torn about reaching out to him. On the one hand, I enjoy talking to him, he can give me some insights about some of the sexual things I am exploring. Sure, seeing him for some sexy times would be fun too, as we had some great times.

      On the other hand, I don’t know why I would bother reaching out if he never reaches out to me. Because then it will always be me pushing him – there would be no balance, and that was what was frustrating when we were together.

      I suspect he just liked his FWB because she was simple. She didn’t pressure him for anything, didn’t ask for anything. He told me the first time we spoke that he was bored with her and she provided no intellectual stimulation and they didn’t do anything other than have sex.

      So while I know there were a number of things I could offer that she couldn’t, I also came with emotional pressure which he didn’t want to handle.

  2. Do NOT reach out to Andrew. There is nothing there to reach out to besides a hard dick…and if I remember correctly he wasn’t always hard.

    I don’t believe you’re cynical at all. You’re upfront and confront the obvious. There’s nothing wrong with that-I think you’re just not encountering men who appreciate that.

  3. I know you and I are very different when it comes to men (and there’s nothing wrong with that, I think you are great), but I have to say, it’s worth waiting for a man who actively pursues you. These guys sound so namby pamby. They have no idea what they want, if they did, they would be making more of an effort. They are boys, not men.

  4. I agree with the others about not contacting Andrew for awhile longer. I still like him and I think that you two could still have a friendship and he could be a great resource for some of the things you are wanting to experience but I think it is way to soon to be going down that road.

    As far as the others, meh. There is nothing you have written about any of them that I find remotely interesting or worth your time. Maybe I am missing something, idk.

    Going solo would open up the opportunity for other to approach you, just sayin…

    xo

    • I think some of those things with Andrew are possible as well, but I need to get some emotional distance. I guess if he never reaches out I will draw a conclusion he doesn’t care about me, and then it will be difficult for me to think of him as a friend.

      You aren’t missing anything. The only one on that list who is interesting is the Comedian, but that’s because we’ve known each other for 25 years. I know time will pass and we have a connection but the frequency of our connection ebbs and flows. But he is not happy enough for me… he comes with a lot of issues. So I am not pursing a serious relationship with him.

      Turns out that Dan has reached out to me in the last couple of days since I wrote this post. We will see each other tomorrow (Friday) night, but I also told him I’m not going to just have him come over for talk and sex. If I’m seeing him, I want to go out first. We’ll see how that goes over. I like him, but not enough to be overly fussed if I don’t see him again.

      And next Tuesday solo? Unfortunately it’s not that kind of event. It’s about 30 of us at my bosses house then off to a fancy restaurant in a private room. I’ve asked my friend Katharine but am resigned to going solo. It’s not that I mind being alone so much, but it is a reminder that I’m single in a world of couples.

  5. This is an interesting situation that you find yourself in and one that quite frankly is baffling to me. I say that because I think that purely from the standpoint that you are such an engaging and interesting person. You provoke thought and conversation that doesn’t seem to leave dead space or awkward pauses. To me, that is a huge element for beginning a relationship on any level. From there, the opportunity for deeper connection can build naturally.

    You have a lot to offer and it is astounding that you haven’t been able to expand beyond the limits with the men you have found. I read your post about what you want and need and found it to be quite thoughtful and reasonable. What struck me is that after you went through that exercise, you (seemingly) went back and repeated what is clearly not working for you. Essentially, you disregarded your list and invited a dude to come over for sex.

    I have been married an with my wife for a long time which means that I haven’t had to deal with any of this. However, I watch my single men friends go through their paces and we talk a LOT about what they experience and think about with regards to the women they (for the lack of a better word) “date.” With the exception of one guy (who refuses to have sex within a set time), each of them have enjoyed the ease at which they can get their “dates” into bed, get a blowjob or whatever within a few hours of meeting. They unanimously reject any idea of having relationships other than sex with women who would do that. In other words, they have no respect for them as being relationship-worthy, opting to get what they can as for as long as they can.

    I remember the comment that I made to you (“has” rather than “had”) and that it (I think) spurred you to analyze these men (listed above) in such a way makes a little ticked at myself for writing it. It was off-handed and not meant to make you head down any path with these guys. I actually hope that you do find the man that checks all or most of the boxes of your needs and wants list (and it doesn’t appear that any of these guys come close).

    • A deeper connection can only be built if that is what one seeks. Soon after I started dating I wrote about how odd it is to date at 40. It is a challenge to find someone with enough interests that they don’t just want you, all the time, but not so many that they don’t have time for you in their life. You both need to be in similar places regarding relationships, which is also difficult. Also I am not having any more children, which is an issue for some.

      Forget actually also being attracted to someone mentally and physically.

      It is an insane double standard with men and woman regarding having sex (or sexual activity) on the first date. It’s frankly outrageous that men see women that way. But it’s also useless to try to change that perspective, because it is so pervasive. Honestly, that’s why I’ve had the “best” (it’s all relative) relationships with men I’ve found on the more sexually oriented sites – because there are more of them that understand that sex is a key component to a relationship. Jason, NIM, Andrew, didn’t see me just a sex toy because I had sex with them early.

      I would be loathe to go on 3 or 4 dates with someone, really start to like them, then discover there is no physical chemistry. I’m not willing to sacrifice that.

      So what’s a girl to do? Sure, avoiding sex at the first meeting is a good start.

      I haven’t disregarded my list, Will. It’s one thing to know intellectually what I want. It’s another thing entirely to immediately cease all the behaviours that fill me in other ways. What I ultimately want, but what I might settle for in the meantime, can be different. It doesn’t mean I’m not on that path.

      And for the record, I did not have sex (intercourse, since I’m sure you will say what we did was sex) with the Dog Trainer the first night. I met someone for coffee (story up tomorrow) and didn’t get physical with him then NOR did I take him up on his offer for a night of sex. I have not reached out to Andrew in an attempt to get something physical.

      Your comment did not set me down any path with these guys. It just gave me pause because I didn’t think there was anyone better out there. Writing about it proved it to me. And no, they don’t come anywhere close to checking those boxes. I am going to see Dan tomorrow (Friday) but if all he wants to do is come over, instead of going out on a date, I’m going to say “no thank you”.

      • I can’t imagine what sort of challenge this can be for people. It both fascinates and saddens me that this can be so difficult. I have said on many occasions that I wouldn’t have any clue of what to do (I have a few more years on the clock than you) and, based upon what you (and countless other I know) are dealing with, I would much rather do something else (which is probably far more detrimental for me). At my age and station in life (coupled with the fact that having children is now a physical impossibility (and not something that I want to start over with), I understand how that can be a challenge with some people who are still seeking that.

        I couldn’t agree with you more about the upfront sex double standard. I didn’t mention that as a matter of being judgmental but that it exists and it won’t be changed anytime soon. In my estimation, it is worsening. I also don’t discredit the idea that sex is a key component for relationships. In my marriage, there has been a lot of contention and challenge (on both mine and Savannah’s part) regarding that. Because of where our relationship is today and how central sex is for us, to lose that part of us would be nothing short of devastating. But, would it mean the end of our marriage if something were to happen to me (like a back injury while cycling) that disables me? Would Savannah simply abandon me?

        The rub about dating and trying to establish some sort of criteria (i.e. number of dates before having sex) is that it could (as you pointed out) be as meaningless as having sex on the first meeting. What’s a girl to do? The thing is, Ann is that you have committed a heck of a lot of time communicating and sharing this part of your life on your blog. You think (out loud) and engage in some rather interesting conversations in the open. What I gather from this is that you are adept at conversing with people and learning about them regardless of it being on social media, email, text, phone or in person conversations. You have the gift of dialogue and are willing to use it and lack inhibition. Why does getting to know a man have to be bound by “dates” or some other conventional (outmoded?) means? Chemistry is chemistry regardless of the manner in which you connect.

        Now, consider telling me where sex fits into that? It is a separate (yet tightly-linked) facet of relationships and we (Savannah and I) are of the same mindset as you and NEED that physical component. However, what we have in our relationship – interests, passion, etc. is just as strong (for the record, how do you know what I would say or define regarding YOU and the sort of physical contact that you engage in, regardless of if it was with the dog guy or anyone else?).

        One thing that I hope you’ll understand about us (I don’t actually speak for Savannah…I don’t dare!!) is that we do like you and want to see you find THAT guy. I know that Savannah gets frustrated for you (perhaps she takes things a little personal when guys “treat” you that way…I get to hear about it) and wants to help you.

        I hope that your evening with Dan goes well. God knows you need some happiness and a lot less drama (and we know drama, here).

        • I will respond with a longer comment when I have the time, but apologies if I mixed up you and Savannah on the comment about the having sex definition. She strongly disagrees with my definition (which is fine, of course) when I said that I did not have sex with the Dog Trainer on the first night we were together.

          • Take your time in responding. She does have some strong feelings on things, doesn’t she? 😉

            As you have said to me in the past, you don’t need to apologize for anything. The confusion was created by us initially by using the same account, so you (and every other of our WP friends) get a free pass on that one.

  6. I don’t think you should reach out to Andrew. I also think you are spot on with the “good morning” text to several women. The swingers club could be interesting. I would totally go with you to your work event if I was there, which still would leave you dateless, but I think we could stir up all kinds of fun trouble together!

    • Yup… a “good morning” is a weak way to make you think they are interested, where I’m pretty damn sure it’s to keep the “iron in the fire” per se, until they have worked through whoever is ahead of you on the priority list.

      Ironically, although I got NO response from Hot Actor after my inquiry text to him, he sent a “good morning” text to me. I said “good morning” back and that was it!

      I feel a rant coming on. Perhaps I should post about it.

      And yeah, I’m glad for the advice on Andrew. It hurts because I am 100% sure I won’t hear from him… but I know then it’s the best thing to just let it go.

      • I, too, have been wrapped up in the “oh, he is thinking about me first thing!” when really he is just keeping irons in the fire and doing the least amount of effort possible.
        I think you should absolutely post your rant.
        I am in full on, I’ll just hook up with a couple of exes “because I need sex and pseudo-intimacy and it is a hell of a lot easier than building something new” mode. Ugh.

  7. This post makes me sad. You deserve better and maybe I’m completely off base, but my sense is that the way you are engaging with these men is only going to continue reeling in the wrong kind of men. Double standards are absolutely unfortunate, but there is some wisdom in holding off on sex until you’re monogamous if you’re looking for someone to love and adore you above all others (and not just for the sex). I imagine if you were to let someone get to know you without using sex as a lure, your enthusiasm in the bedroom when the time is right would seal the deal. Sex is a troublesome foundation for the kind of love you’re looking for.

    • I hear what you are saying, for sure. I’m sorry it makes you sad. It just makes me melancholy. However, to your comment that it could be how I engage them, I want to add these things to clarify:

      The Hot Actor and I haven’t even kissed. We had great exchanges by text and by phone and started off with a coffee date with no physical aspect whatsoever. He got turned the first time off by my lack of availability and need to plan in advance. I’m not sure why anything would be different, but he’s the one that started out saying he wanted to meet up again.

      The Comedian and I are a totally different story. All we’ve done ever is kiss. And it’s probably unfair to put him in the same category as the others, given our 25 year history.

      The Lawyer and I, while yes we had a very hot date, it was not our first date. Prior to the sex-on-the-couch episode, we had lots of non sexual banter and conversations and our first meeting had no physical contact.

      Sure, Dan started off with sex right away. Definitely (as I have said before, and some comments are suggesting) that can set a tone with men that is not the right one.

      All that to say, way back earlier this year I had changed the bulk of how I dealt with first meetings with men. I didn’t want them to be sexual. Even the Dog Trainer and I had about 6 hours of phone conversations before we met for the first time.

      So… to reiterate, I do hear you. But I’m not sure what I’m doing “wrong” or if it’s just I haven’t met someone yet who is all that into me, regardless of when we get to the sexy bits.

      • I hate that I implied that you are doing something wrong. Maybe I am over identifying with your situation and giving you (unsolicited, I know…) advice that I wish someone had given me when my libido was at an all time high after a seemingly emotionless breakup. I was numbing my emotions with sex and I used sex as a means of obtaining the love that I was so desperately craving. As women, we don’t actually have to have sex to know that we are using sex to obtain what we desire. It feels empowering, but sometimes it leads us down the wrong path. There’s such a fine line between honoring our sexuality and abusing ourselves, sometimes it’s hard to keep it all balanced. Maybe I am merely projecting.

        • No no no, not to worry. It’s okay to project and to see commonalities and to provide advice. I’m totally, 100% open to that. It’s rare probably to ever see full alignment in our situations, and it’s perfectly fine to find one part that resonates and run with that.

          I COMPLETELY agree with you that I am using psuedo-intimacy / sex to obtain what I desire. To feel wanted, loved, cared for. To be paid attention to.

          Wow. I just realized that last one is probably the biggest thing. It’s why non-communication triggers my neediness so very much.

          What I was picking up on what you said was that it’s frustrating for me that even when I’m not using sex (right away), I still haven’t managed to find someone that gives me what I need. I get being seen only as a sexual plaything when I start with sex.

          But I also see your point that perhaps it’s the quick promise of it as well.

          Sigh.

          I guess I would be bored if all of this was easy 🙂

          Thank you for caring. Honest, it means so much. xox

  8. You know, it’s okay to be a cynic. It’s okay to be skeptical. I have a fairly low opinion of people in general (for example, I was stood up for the second time in a row by the same woman this week).
    However, people don’t want to hear that stuff when it’s directed at them, which is the time to keep it to yourself. Part of it is that we have such an anti-negativity culture and cynicism, even when based in reality, comes off as negative.

    But!
    Unless that wasn’t the first time you said that to the lawyer, he’s being a bit overly sensitive.

    • Skeptical is sometimes a good thing, if it can keep me from going down an emotional path that isn’t healthy. It’s definitely a defence mechanism for me!!

      You gave a woman a second chance after standing you up? Why, if you don’t mind my asking?

      And yes, agree that people don’t like any whiff of questioning or criticism. I find that if someone calls me out on my shit, it’s uncomfortable and it’s hard to be bluntly honest with people when you don’t know if they can handle the truth.

      I may have said it once before in passing but it was never a serious conversation. I suspect he takes it as criticism, and if he IS a player, he doesn’t like anyone thinking he is.

      • Because I’m too nice?

        Okay, actually, it’s because I make the active choice to lead with trust. So, if someone says to me “this thing happened and I couldn’t make it,” I respond with “okay, I’m sorry to hear that” rather than “I don’t believe you” even if I don’t believe. If someone then says, “I want to try again,” I give them the second chance. I figure everyone deserves one second chance.

        No, it doesn’t work very well, but it works better than leading with the assumption that everyone is always lying, even if everyone is usually always lying.

  9. Ann! Cut them all loose! They’re rubbish (ok that sounds rude but today I’m in a blunt mood LOL)

    All these guys are hanging on by a tiny semi-interested thread and that’s not good enough. I’m sure someone else might be happy with that but are you? They don’t deserve you to be their fallback girl, you should be sitting at the top. You’re doing them a favour and for what? They get what they want (when schedules allign) but are you getting what you want? If the answer is no then whats the point?

    If it was me, I’d start from scratch. I’m assuming (correct me if I’m wrong) that you’re looking for a long term relationship. Your stable is full of fwbs (or maybe fuck buddies as some aren’t saying the nice things that a friend would say..). So if you interact with someone that you cant see becoming something (eg the lawyer with the ever conflicting schedules) then IMO don’t waste your time on them.

    Ann you’re gorgeous and lovely and there’s someone out there who will want nothing more than to treat you as a princess 🙂

  10. Hot Actor was the one who annoyed me most. His poor attempt at cancelling the date by transferring the liability to you. Once again, I agree with everyone else, you deserve better.

    • Yes, that’s exactly what he did, wasn’t it? I thought is was pretty damn advanced sneaky behaviour. If he wanted to see me and I offered to be out later, I’m sure he would have responded positively to that.

  11. Too cynical or too knowing? Same thing. I was always a one-horse guy. I could never juggle the way you do. It tore at my heartstrings. I felt bad for the girls who liked me more than I liked them and pined for the ones who were only having a casual affair with me.

    It’s not the answer you want from Andres but that’s your answer. To hell with him. Next.

    • I think so many people do not like being challenged or questioned. Even in a conversation a couple of nights ago, when a male was lamenting that a woman stood him up, when I said “well you can just move on to whoever else is in your rotation” he sputtered and tried to deny it.

      I guess these behaviours just seem wrong, so we try to deny them. But it’s a reality of the bulk of the people I have engaged with online. So it’s a level of discomfort and people are reluctant to admit “yeah, I’m engaging with a few people right now”.

      If someone challenged me with that, I would say yes – but I would love to meet someone that makes me want to not talk to anyone else. A strong person is going to say – that’s me!

      And you are right, I have my answer from Andrew. I don’t like it, but I have it. Time to move on 🙂

What do you think?