Overthinking is a really terrible thing | Or: welcome to the dark recesses of ASV's brain

I was feeling pretty good mentally yesterday about Andrew and me. I was all chill about taking things one day at a time. I know it’s good for me to pace myself in relationships, since I don’t have a lot of experience doing so.

Yesterday, given our conversation about gang bangs and subspace and the like, I decided to join FetLife. I figured it was a good way for me to do some research and get to know more about the “scene” in my city. The terms Andrew uses are vaguely familiar to me, but I want to know more.

I joined some groups, uploaded a pic (partial face and shoulder, showing Andrew’s bite marks from the first time we were together), added a little bit of info. Today I explored some more. I knew Andrew was on the site (he told me he was, but that he wasn’t that active, but that he gets notices from the groups he’s in – some which are funny) and so I searched for a group that I thought he might be a member of.

There he was.

And since seeing him, I’ve been down the overthinking rabbit hole, thanks to my curiosity.

First of all, he’s befriended two new women within the last 10 days (one just 4 days ago). Of course I don’t know if he’s just the type to be nice and accept friend requests, or if he sought them out. 18 days ago, when I was on vacation, he joined a group for submissive women seeking dominant men.

This of course reminded me of something he said to me – that it was odd for him when I was away, and he felt he had to reconnect with me when I returned. Which of course, I have now translated into meaning although we skyped almost every single day, he wasn’t connected to me when I was away and obviously didn’t miss me.

Now, other than that, he hasn’t been all that active publicly on the site (you don’t see messaging activity, obviously). So it’s not that I doubt everything he has told me.

Of course then I looked through his friend list, and found only one 30-year-old female – the characteristics of Tina, his FWB.

Then I noticed that “Tina” (yes, I know this is a BIG assumption) was also friends with someone whose handle sounded very familiar. Guess Who? It was Jason.

I had asked Jason a while back who he and Andrew had “played” with together before, and he told me it was a friend of Andrew’s who was curious. So now I’m convinced that Tina is one and the same – because Jason only has 2 friends on FetLife and she’s one of them?

I’m not even sure if it bothers me that Andrew’s FWB may be the other woman that shared him and Jason, but it’s rattling around in my head. I mean, is it possible they have done it again?

Then I looked at Andrew’s group list. It’s overwhelming, to be honest. I don’t judge, but it’s stuff that is so far beyond even what I would do…I don’t know what to make of it. I know he is kinky and curious and very experienced, but this makes me feel, well, small and insignificant.

It occurs to me that I know very little. And that even with all I have to offer a man, perhaps this man needs more. I’m simultaneously freaked out that I’m not BBW or kinky enough.

I know I am being fucking ridiculous, honestly. I do know he is looking for a relationship. He has told me he doesn’t want to be in an open relationship, but potentially could swing every once in a while.

But still, I find myself wondering if he is still seeking out others. It’s one thing for me if he has me, and his FWB on the side, and that’s it. It’s something else entirely if he is active on sites and seeking other partners. Because for me it’s a sign that he’s just not that into me.

On my end, I did reopen by OKCupid profile. Johnny is still in my list of matches, which is rather awkward. But I’m actually glad to see he was active there. The emails have been coming in, and I played the tinder-like matching game, but I stare at the emails and haven’t responded to any.

Actually, that’s not true. I said thank you to a handsome man who said I was beautiful. But I suspect he’s a catfish and so my brief conversation with him was not representative of a real effort on my part.

I really just don’t want to engage anyone new. I feel bad opening up the profile and then ignoring everyone, but I know I don’t have the time and energy. Frankly, if Andrew is still pursuing new people, then I will as well… but I will be very picky if only because I don’t have the time.

So this is what happens to my head sometimes.

I’ve been debating all afternoon whether to ask him. It doesn’t help that I haven’t heard anything from him all day. So I sent a “how is your day going” text message. His response, an hour later? “I’m in a mood. Just gonna flake out for a bit. Will call you tomorrow.”

So I said “sorry to hear. Anything I can do?” and he said “No thanks…I’ll be fine”.

He didn’t ask me how I’m feeling (shitty).

We have no immediate plans to see each other before the swingers night (which I assume he’s put in his calendar). It’s usually hit-and-miss anyway for him because of work. But it leaves me unsettled. He has his son next weekend so he can’t come to a party I’m having this Friday.

Well, my dear readers…what do you think?

0 thoughts on “Overthinking is a really terrible thing | Or: welcome to the dark recesses of ASV's brain

  1. I hate to be all gloom and doom…but if I’ve learned one thing its to trust your gut. I think back to basically every failed relationship or fling or whatever and I had those times where something felt wrong, or I didn’t feel like I was getting the cold hard truth, or I felt like there was something missing and I made excuses for it to go away. Then when all went to shit, the pieces came together and I realized I should have listened to those nagging thoughts weighing heavy on my mind. He seems distant and I think you’d do better with someone who would at least communicate with you a few times a day. Sure, nobody wants to have their phone blown up while they are busy…but the least he could do is text you a few times throughout the day. Yes, he’s checking in every 24 hours but that isn’t enough. Like you said, he didn’t ask how your day is going. It sounds like he is making very little effort when you already have so much on your plate you need someone who will make some effort on their part. There are plenty of men that can fuck, so taking that out of the equation, I have my worries about this guy for you in this situation.

    • Hollie, no worry about being negative about it. If I didn’t want opinions, I wouldn’t have asked.

      My gut tells me he likes me. I know he doesn’t NEED anyone, so it’s not like he’s just filling time. He did drop his second FWB because of me (he said).

      However, I agree that I need more communication and effort. What I am not sure of is whether he is deliberately not giving more because he’s not committed yet. He certainly has the self-control to do something like that.

      It was a question I had wanted to ask him before – what it would be like to be with him, when he’s committed? If it wouldn’t be different, then for sure he’s not my guy. I don’t really know how to ask that question, but it’s pretty important to me.

      I really appreciate your feedback and concern.

      • I think if it is important to you…ask. You’ll never regret questions you asked but if you don’t ask then you’ll wonder and potentially waste time. He seems responsive to intelligent conversation about where you’re at so I don’t think it was scare him off. He’s also not your guy if you can’t be honest with your feelings or communicative of them so I say ask.

  2. Stop.

    Walk away. Take a deep breath.

    You can’t know what he’s thinking. His movements on fetlife are probably like mine. Periodic and don’t mean shit. I join groups to have a say about something then usually leave again. What he joined doesn’t matter.

    What he says to you and how he behaves with you does.

    Stop the online fet stalking. You’re going to give yourself an aneurysm.

    It’s a kink website. I joined a hella lot of groups. My interests are longer than the guiness book of records too.

    Just listen and feel him for now. That’s all that matters.

    Re the kinky thing? Take it as it comes. Everyone is kinky in some way. It’s a Kinsey scale. Yes it’s scary but it’s also something that should be fun. So stop worrying.

    Hugs.

    • Thanks Hon. I can get over the group list, it’s a transitory concern I know. He’s been very complimentary to me so I can focus on that.

      What I have more trouble letting go of is the thought he may still be pursuing others, and that he’s just not that available to me. I responded to Hollie above that i wonder if he’s just that self controlled to not be always around… but at the end of the day, I’m not sure if he would ever be “present” enough for me.

      I will take those hugs. It doesn’t help that I am still sick. Thank you 🙂

      • So what I just took from what you said is that you need to ask him.

        Ask him if he’s pursuing others and how available he is if at all. Make sure you have some inkling of what you need from him to feel secure though.

        Maybe phrase it that you’re feeling insecure and need him to reassure you of your place in his life. Ask him if he’s looking. Tell him that you’re not feeling secure in his presence in your life.

        He’s the only one that can do that. Fetlife won’t help. Although it’s good fun to stalk people on there. I know. We can make a new fetish just for us silent kinky stalkers.
        Well then I’m sending you all the hugs in the world. From me to you. <3

  3. I know it’s hard to tell what is really join going on with people. You could try to do more innocent information gathering with him and see if you get more out of him. You could tell him that you joined the site and that you are curious about his experiences with it. He may be really excited about the thought of introducing you to all these new concepts. From what I have heard, most doms get a real kick out of training a new sub. You can ask him how he uses the site and how he regards it in his life.
    For some people a site like that may be just a little fantasy that they enjoy sometimes kind of like a video game. Or it could be a very real platform for meeting and connecting with people in his world. Since you don’t know him that well, you’ll have to figure that out.
    It does sound like this is a guy who is a bit unconventional in his approach to sex and relationship and may not be able to maintain a classic monogamous relationship. That may not be because of anything about you but just due to his own issues. The fact that he is so active with partners, with you and the FWB and the site and bi and everything makes it seem like he is someone that gets a lot of thrills from engaging with varied partners. Even if consciously he thinks that he wants one serious relationship, unconsciously that may not really be something he can handle.
    In relationships, their are a lot of unconscious power dynamics. If this is a guy who is into domination he obviously has some desire to be in power. Maintaining more than one partner is an easy way to retain power; he never needs either partner completely or gives himself fully, and he leaves both partners in an insecure place where they perceive themselves as in competition with each other.
    I think it’s important to continue to be clear with him about your feelings and what you want. He will respect if you set your boundaries.
    It’s also not totally clear reading your posts why you are so into this guy in the first place. That may be something to consider for you.
    Good luck sorting things out 🙂

    • Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I’m into this guy because he is smart, kind, a good communicator, mature, a good dad, is sexy as hell, and an all around decent dude.

      It may not have been clear from my post, but he isn’t all that active on the site these days. Just a couple things here and there. He has been nothing but honest about his other relationships – he had two FWB when we first met, now he has me and an FWB (which I am not, it’s more than sex between us).

      I know he is looking for a relationship. I also know that he doesn’t want “open” but that occasionally, as part of a committed relationship, he would be interested in sharing. He simply has a LOT of past experience of varied sorts… so it’s different than what I’m used to.

      I do plan on telling him I joined the site; my motivation was not to stalk him but to do research and because I’m curious. He’s also been very open about a few of the sites he belongs to and why – so I don’t feel like he’s hiding anything from me, really.

      My concerns come down to whether he can ever give me what I need, from an attention perspective, whether he’s a good match for me (which comes with time), and if he’s all that into me.

      I need luck!! Thank you 🙂

  4. What I think? Obviously, as I was pointing out on your other post, I have literally NO experience in dating. So take anything I say with a Huge pinch of salt.
    But, is it possible that he is so confident in all things sexual not necessarily because he’s done it all but because he’s researched it all? Is it possible that he joined that group to get more information into what you may like since you seemed to like it when he told you to get on the bed, NOW?
    Being on a site and befriending someone doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re looking into jumping them (just look at the number of people I chat with off WP… Ok, you cannot see it, but let’s say there are a few people. Doesn’t mean I’m actively pursuing them, even if, often, I’m the one who initiated contact).
    As for the rest: does it make a difference if Tina has had a threesome with Andrew and Jason? If yes, why?
    I think your mind is trying to fuck with you. Try and rest and take it one day at a time!
    I know it helped me the other day. To realise that, really, not meeting over that weekend, destroying those plans that had been
    brewing for more than weeks, doesn’t change how I feel nor that I’m ready to enjoy what I have a while longer. Honestly from the bottom of my heart. And in a way, it felt good to realise that 🙂

    Good luck. Big hugs
    XOXO

    • Thanks Dawn… I take those hugs 🙂

      He definitely has the experience. But he’s also quite curious. For example, he leads a poly group but he’s not poly. He just wanted to learn more about it and meet interesting people.

      When he told me about something he wanted to experience, he also said “hey if you can find someone, great”. He and Jason met on Craigslist. So he’s pretty open with all of that.

      Yes, my mind is fucking with me. Damn cold. I wish I could have been busy and active today, instead am at home with my kid feeling guilty for not being able to have an active day, and trolling the internet on fetish sites 😉

  5. It’s really difficult to say what he is thinking but…based on everything that I have been reading about him, I still have the same general opinion: I don’t think he is on the same stage as you. He doesn’t seem to be interested in any kind of relationship – at least, that’s what I gather (I might as well be wrong) – at all, and please don’t think it’s your problem. He just doesn’t seem to be at a stage in his life where he seems to be interested in pursuing any kind of relationship (open or not) for real – or doing the type of effort which comes with it. But this is just an opinion. I hope whatever happens, happens for the best.
    Deep breath.

  6. Holy Shit Woman you make my head hurt. Overthinking is an understatement here. I mean don’t take this the wrong way but it sounds like you are making up false scenarios and over amplifying what is happening or not happening.

    I know you KNOW this, but you and him are not a couple. What he is doing or maybe even *not* doing is NO different than what you are doing. You are still in contact with your other FWBs, you are still checking dating sites, etc…

    Do you tell him that you are still in contact with others? If you aren’t willing to cut absolutely everyone else out of the picture while you focus on him and whether you want a relationship with him or not than it can;t be expected for him to do that either.

    And if you can’t handle him doing the SAME thing you are doing, you should probably consider ending it because it is obviously creating an unhealthy situation for you. Or you could do something I’m guessing is quite foreign to you and just not worry about what he is doing especially when it doesn’t involve you.

    Deep breaths, positive thoughts, hugs, wine and piece of dark chocolate. Please know I say all of that from a place of caring and wishing you weren’t struggling so much over this. Hugs Ann!

    • I know that this isn’t a poll or some sort of contest to help you decide, Ann. And I have no experience of value in this sort of situation that would count for anything, but I have to agree with ‘Tis.

      I will add that you are playing a very dangerous game with yourself and your emotions. You sound like like want a monagamous relationship (at least you want HIM to be fully committed to you) but are trying to keep all of your options open.

      • I would drop all those options in a heartbeat, if I thought he was the right person for me and if he also wanted to be exclusive. What gives me pause on the former is if this is all he can give, even when exclusive, it’s not enough.

        I would much rather date one person at a time, focus on them, figure out whether it’s right, and then move on or continue forward.

        With him, I know that sexually we could still explore together, which addresses that concern about being exclusive with someone.

        Does that help clarify?

        • Sweetie, I understand that from several posts ago and I think that I have told you as much. I also know that you don’t have the time to commit to “dating” in that capacity (one at a time) with your life and the demands on your time.

          I am very clear.

          • So I’m a bit confused then… I don’t have time to date multiple guys, really. One would be a strong preference. I don’t expect a double standard. What is it that you think is dangerous?

          • I must have read this post wrong. It seems that you are back a few steps and questioning the situation with Andrew and wanting him to be different with and towards you than he is at present yet he has not made movement in that direction causing you to be concerned. Maybe the lenses that I view the world through are narrowly focused leaving me too naive.

          • Nope, you got that totally right. My brain went to a not great place this afternoon, based on some dumb shit.

            I think I misunderstood you – I thought in your comment you were saying it was dangerous for me to have a double standard in what I wanted in my relationship, and I was clarifying that I do not.

          • Sometimes I wish that the Internet allowed for inflection, eye contact and body language. Shit, it is difficult to convey certain points with any measure of clarity. 🙁

    • Ann, did I ever mention I like ‘Tis? 😉
      Right, what she said! ^^
      I say just go with the flow. I’m not saying dismiss what your gut is telling you, but maybe try and get your brain to sh*t the f*ck up! Then you can listen to your heart. Or soul. Or gut. Whichever you want to follow on this one. It’s a tough thing, this dating thing. I know. It may not show, but I’ve been going through a few struggles too. At the end of the day, it’s your decision to make a mountain out of it or to go with the flow.
      I know that it’s difficult, because we’ve been hurt pretty badly and made to doubt what we feel. That’s the problem with the shitty kinds of marriages we had. But I’d say: stop putting thoughts in his head. Stop trying to analyse everything, just go with what you FEEL.
      And by all means, do ask him whether not contacting you more often is because he’s trying to protect himself or because that’s just the way he is. And explain that you need more contact than that, so if he’s not able to provide more once you’re committed, then you’re not sure whether you have any future together other than fuck buddies. (’cause let’s be frank: he sounds like a pretty good sex buddy if we exclude his one failed event and the fact he doesn’t use lube for anal 😉 ).

      • I do think I can ask that question – how, if at all, would things be different if we were exclusive. Because that’s what writing this, and responding to everyone’s comments, has helped me realize… that’s the key thing for me. If he has more to give, and would give it, then it’s a feasible relationship. Because I’m not getting the attention or consideration I need. If not, then yeah, we can be sex buddies and probably still have quite a bit of fun together.

    • Thanks Tis!! Totally know that most of this is completely unfounded. And good to hear your perspective. It’s why I put up this post 🙂

      It’s a very good point you make – I don’t actually want to bother with anyone else at this point…I would much rather focus on him. But at the same time, I’m afraid to do that given I’m not sure where I stand with him.

      I know he is continuing to see his FWB Tina and I’ve been surprisingly (for me) okay with that. She’s not competition or getting in the way of what he may feel about me.

      I wanted to ask him on Saturday morning whether he’d be bothered if I was dating / sleeping with anyone else. He’s never asked me if I was, and I’ve only slept with one other person since I met him. But we ran out of time and I thought I should keep the number of heavy / relationshippy questions to a minimum 🙂

      I don’t think he would care about sex. I actually think he wouldn’t care about the dating either, which will bother me to hear him say that. I want to be wanted, at the end of the day.

      • I can completely understand wanting to be wanted, even us married folk suffer from that. :/

        I think a lot of your concerns just need to be worked out over time, not so differently than they currently are already. What I take away from each time you see each other or have deeper conversations is that, that is what is happening.

        From reading your other comments, I see that you are figuring out what questions you need answers too on a quicker timeline. Once you get those, maybe you’ll not over think the stuff like you currently are.

        Again, lots of hugs and support. xoxo

        • “…wanting to be wanted, even us married folk suffer from that.”

          How many years did I suffer through that? There are nights that even though I know that I am wanted and Will pursues me, I still feel doubt and unwanted. Other times, I just need to hear and feel it.

          So true, ‘Tis!

  7. Trying to interpret the dating site or Fetlife activity is akin to self-mutilation….I know cause I do it all the time. It creates all those scenarios in your head.

    I agree with Sharn to be guided by how he treats you. But I also agree listen to your gut and be cautious. Intuition is a strong sense that is rarely wrong.

    You also have to think about where you are going with him or you will worry yourself to death.

  8. I want to say stop and don’t over think it, but I know I do stuff like this all the time. Ignoring your emotions, what’s your logical self say? On the outside looking in, it feels like you’re teaching. I don’t know Andrew though. Go with your gut I guess.

    • My logical self says he’s cautious and careful and doesn’t need a relationship. So, he won’t move quickly nor will he be all gushy. My logical self reminds me I don’t like gushy 🙂

  9. Good grief. The mental gymnastics some of you women go through must be as exhausting to experience as it is to read about. Endless wondering and worrying and trying to figure things out… meanwhile the guys are probably unconcernedly whistling along with their lives.

  10. All I can think to say is he isn’t you and so you absolutely cannot try to guess at his motivations/thoughts/feelings. STOPITSTOPITSTOPIT. It’s your tiger pit, as we say.

    If he calls you, great. If he doesn’t, so what? Think relationship zen, here. I feel anxious just reading this! And you’ve known him for how long??

    If I had to describe this post, I’d call it a giant stress ball. You are in a total lather over things completely out of your control. Personally, I think that’s the real struggle here.

    I’m not insensitive to your plight (there’s proof of me spinning out of control in my archives, for Christ’s sake), but just think of this as a learning curve. You’ve gotta let go.

    Hang in there, girl. xx Hy

    • I couldn’t agree with you more. I know I need to stop, I know it’s counterproductive, and I know that relationship zen is something I need to learn. I never did learn it, so now it’s time.

      Writing helps. I get it out here and then don’t have it all bottled up. Getting people’s opinions is helpful too, whether I like them or not.

      Thanks for the advice, Hy 🙂

  11. Ann, everyone has already given you great feedback, so all I can say is … he chose *you*, with all those options out there, all the fet groups and opportunities, etc., and it is you he chose to be the one he keeps going back to. You have something the others don’t have — you have the real him, not the one playing around with different curiosities. He’s a guy who likes to explore and experiment — that’s who he is. Can you co-exist with him by being his home base? Just a thought, because I’m working with limited information, so I may be way off base.

    • Thanks, Hon.

      Bottom line for me is I want more, and I don’t know if I’m not getting it from him because that’s just how he is, OR if it’s how he is before he knows that he really likes someone.

      You are right – he keeps in touch and I know likes me for more than just sex. But it’s not enough. I believe I am way too needy for him.

  12. As someone else said earlier, there is a lot of good advice here and we all know you are smart and will figure it out. Truly. There is something about being involved with someone who is so very experienced and has such a wide range of “interests” that you aren’t sure if some is just fantasy, some is real life experience and of course, some may be part of their way of life. Lurking or creeping on social media of someone you are involved with doesn’t ever go well. That’s an exaggeration of course, but you know what I mean. I agree with Hy though, if Andrew isn’t totally in to you, and you are totally in to him-then you know you have to stop it. I don’t know that is where you are at right now but you could be getting there. Your line about not being a BBW or kinky enough made me giggle in nervous recognition. While I am a smaller bbw, I am certainly not kinky, and when I made the mistake of lurking on a couple of his regular social media sites, I freaked out that not only was I *not* slender enough but that I was more than vanilla in comparison to some of his latent interests/fantasies. *sigh* over thinking is what we gals do, but that doesn’t mean we are always right 😉 breathe deep my friend. one step at a time {hugs}

    • I’m trying to breathe 🙂

      Figuring out how he feels is kinda driving me a bit crazy. Obviously. I’m so not good at taking one day at a time!

      But totally agree that once I can establish if he’s as into me as I need him to be – if it’s not enough, I have to say goodbye or just try to use him for sex only (if I can even do that).

      I’ve never worried before that I was too small…it’s always the opposite. But when I see all the BBW and big tits groups he was a part of, it did occur to me. It was just a momentary thought. It helped me understand why he said that I wasn’t a “big” girl 🙂

  13. 1. I don’t have time to read through all of the comments, so I apologize if I’m covering already trod ground.
    2. If you want to know more about what I’m going to say, you should email me.

    It sounds to me like you are trying to put him in a box but, even more so, it sounds to me as if you are trying to put yourself into a box. It’s like you have this particular definition of the kind of person you ought to be or think you want to be, and you are trying to make yourself live inside of that. Of course, that requires you put him in the kind of box that intersects with your kind of box.

    Not that I know you that well, but that’s what it sounds like.

    So there are two more things:
    1. You can’t depend on anyone else for your happiness. You can’t make that someone else’s responsibility. It’s just a recipe for never being happy. You have to be the source of your own happy.
    2. That said, you have to figure out -what- it is, exactly, that you want. Not -whom- you want but -what-. Once you have the what figured out, then you can figure out how to achieve that.

  14. Recently I learned that the best thing one can do is to tell what’s on your mind. Just tell him that this bothers you since it is not really a trivial thing.
    Also, have you thought that maybe the fact that you’re not experienced and that he introduces you to different things, might be very exciting to him?

What do you think?