I'm starting to think casual sex with no expectations is the way to go.

If you haven’t read my most recent posts on Andrew, you can visit Part One and Part Two. Then how I pulled my head out of my ass (figuratively).

Sometimes time does tell you something, even if it doles out the knowledge piece by piece.

Monday afternoon Andrew had said he would call me later. When later came, he said he would have to call me on Tuesday as he was working and even had to take his son to his ex-wife’s place. My last email to him was at 8pm and I offered that he could come by for a glass of wine when he was finished, if he was up for it.

He didn’t seem to read the text (we communicate on Blackberry Messenger which shows when a person has touched the screen and therefore read your text, but you can get around that) nor did he respond. That did not help my general mood.

Tuesday morning I decided to stop being pissy so at 8am I texted “so, how did it go?”. His response? “Not good, getting my son now, ttyl”.

Sure, fine.

I was fully prepared to not hear from him at all. But at 2pm he called. He sounded super stressed out about the different things going on in his life. I decided to not bust out the “I’m needy” conversation. So I kept it light and we chatted for 20 minutes until he had to go. He was having his parents over for dinner. I did tell him I missed talking to him, so he said “well then I will call you later tonight”.

At 9pm he texted that he was “going to flake out to NCIS, call ya when its over”.

I had just fallen asleep putting my son to bed, which was a sign that I really needed to go to sleep early. Which I told him. He said “should I call later or would you rather talk tomorrow?”

What I wanted to say: “Why the fuck would you prioritize television over me? Can’t you take 15 minutes to talk to me NOW?”

What I did say: “I will let you know when I turn out the light.”

Forty-five minutes later, I texted him that I was going to sleep (yes, only 9:45pm, if you are keeping track). Fifteen minutes later, he texted that if I was up to give him a call, otherwise we would talk tomorrow. I was already asleep.

He called me this morning. We chatted about a lot of nothing, then I decided I needed to say what was on my mind. The conversation went something like this:

  • Me: I need to ask you something – but I’ve been debating whether to do so.
  • Him: Okay, sure.
  • Me: When was the last time you saw Tina? Was it when I was on vacation, and/or since I’ve been back?
  • Him: You know I’m bad with dates [true], but it was over a week ago.

You might wonder why I asked this. It was because every conversation I played out in my mind that spoke about my concerns, was predicated on an assumption. I didn’t want to go down some crazy path if he in fact hadn’t seen her in weeks. On the other hand, if he had seen her several times, then I know my concerns were valid but also that there was little point in raising them.

As it turns out, it meant that the issue with him being focussed on me last Saturday had nothing to do with her (which he confirmed). And the one night he went silent when I was on vacation, was about her (I assumed). But equally importantly, none of the other times have been. So, I learned he just goes silent.

He told me he is not ready to give her up. I told him I wasn’t asking him to. I said assuming I didn’t know about her, it would be too early for me to have a conversation about exclusivity, and that I wasn’t about to ask him to give her up just to potentially turn around and tell him I didn’t want a relationship with him.

He laughed at that.

I told him I needed regular contact. That I needed some indication he was thinking about me. That I didn’t want to be ignored, or feel like I was being ignored. That I didn’t think we should have long conversations every night, because it sets a precedent I’m uncomfortable with. That when he’s with me, I need him to be with me. To be present.

I explained to him there were things I needed on Saturday night which I didn’t get. But I recognized I didn’t state them clearly, either.

By way of some explanation, he told me the volume of business he’s facing for October and November could equal the entire previous year. He wanted me to understand his general lack of availability and communication was truly about how busy he is.

Then he asked me if I wanted to know when he was seeing Tina.

I answered, honestly, that I didn’t know. He said “well let’s just leave it to if it comes up.”

The timing was bad, but he had to go for a few minutes while he dropped off his car. He said he’d call me back. Of course I had to go into a meeting so I sent him a text saying I had to jump on a call and if we missed each other perhaps we can chat later. I missed his call, but his voicemail said “of course we can talk later”.

So, at that point I was feeling pretty good. I was pleased I stated what I needed. The only remnant in my head was how it would feel knowing he chooses to see her instead of me. But it was pushed away to the corner of my brain so I could focus on work.

But then, here’s where the title of this post comes into play.

I texted him this evening. Here’s the transcript:

  • Me: Finally home…long day. How are you?
  • Him: Ok, long day and I’m out now, let’s talk tomorrow.
  • Me [feeling sucky]: Okay…I thought we could talk tonight? I guess a glass of wine here is not an option?
  • Him: No, sorry. Call ya tomorrow.
  • Me [after typing and erasing all the things I wanted to say]: Perhaps tomorrow night, then.

Why does this piss me off so much? If he’s not with her, why can’t he volunteer what he’s doing? And if he’s with her, and he chose to see her instead of me? Then WHAT THE FUCK am I doing?

Someone asked me today how I could bear knowing that he’s with someone else. I think I need to face what my gut says – and if I write it here, I have to face it. The reality? If I was smitten, I couldn’t stand it. Like the actual physical pain I experienced just at the thought of Johnny Id being with another woman.

To be clear, the lack of communication and obfuscation bugs me. That he’d choose to see another woman (shit, even television!) over me bugs me. That I’m even spending all this time thinking about it bugs me. I’m irritated, but I’m not tearing myself apart with jealousy.

My expectations are not being met. Bottom line. The one benefit of casual sex, of being with men who are douchbags, is that I have no expectation of being treated well, of being adored. I know they will fuck me and then fuck me over. My expectations are very low.

So, I have a choice to make.

Is it terrible that the one thing I really want to do is the repeat threesome with him and Jason that we have scheduled for two weeks from now? And that I really want to take him up on his offer to bring me to a “down to fuck” event at a local swingers bar, which is for women who want to have sex with multiple men in one evening? That would be a few weeks from now.

I’d like to have those things. But I think if I keep expecting I’m going to get anything else, I will continue to be disappointed.

0 thoughts on “I'm starting to think casual sex with no expectations is the way to go.

  1. I would guess that his work is a total tsunami that is overtaking him in all areas of his life. He has deadlines that must be adhered to and the thrill of the deal is probably very addicting to him. I know these guys — it’s not you, it’s him. He will not change.

    I think you deftly handled the situation as best you could. You played it cool. Congrats! As for the future, that’s up to you but it is sounding like a FWB and not a relationship. Sorry, your relationship search may continue. Oh, and with his work volume — the possibility of him canceling is probably pretty good. Sorry again.

  2. I was thinking about this the other day (as I had a much younger man on my tail, then suddenly I didn’t)…how would I react if he told me he were madly in love with me? Would I be like hell yeah? If it’s anything but that reaction, then I know my hurt is coming from the rejection itself, and not because I want HIM (which to me makes it an entirely different matter). This young man attempted a drunken booty call at 2 a.m. the other night, and I thought to myself: I’m not a hole in which he can stick his wiener. I totally lost all interest him right then.

    My very honest opinion: anyone that chooses NCIS (or any TV) over a small, agreed-upon chat would not receive an ounce of my further attention. I don’t care how horny I might be. I would find my outlet elsewhere.

    The thing I’ve learned is that even though it may seem breezy and level-headed to blow such things off as harmless, I know that my giving in by entertaining him in any way is ultimately compromising the principles of my heart, which tears at the fabric of my self-esteem. Upholding my self-esteem is by far the most important thing to me. Supersedes sex any day…and I do love sex.

    As always, with absolute humbleness do I write all above. This is my perspective, and I don’t think for a second it’s supposed to be the same for you, Ann!

  3. The worst situation I have been recently was where I didn’t realize I was still competing with his prior ex (not saying you are, just putting in context) despite his swearing that he was completely over her. I think he was really just looking for physical-only but was too chicken to say so (or afraid of how it would make him look), which led to me getting hurt because I was told it wasn’t like that. Now, if he had just said this is DTF business only, then I would have been fine. But he didn’t and it got ugly.

    All that to say…I’m either in for needy, romantic squishiness, or I am in for physical only. The in-between stage is one that I cannot navigate or deal with. The will we or won’t we situation….which is why I suck at dating!

    I think my response if I was told he chose NCIS over me would have been “Oh, do you get off to Mark Harmon too?” but I’ve gotten snarkier recently.

    I am sorry you are dealing with this. Sometimes a FWB is easier to deal with when it is just bam and done, not dinner and all. Hopefully things will settle one way or another soon enough.

    I also think that there is no problem with still wanting to go to the preplanned events IF you can establish now what “this” is. If it is still in limbo then IDK if that is a good thing (my humble, inexperience opinion).

    • Yeah, I don’t think this middle ground with him works – because obviously he’s not ready to get romantic and squishy, and I’m not sure he’s who I want that with anyway – at least not for a serious relationship.

      When / if he calls me today, I think I will address the whole “just not that into me” thing. He chose TV over me, and probably his FWB over me last night. Nor has he asked for another time to see each other, in advance of our set date. So…I’m going to suggest I need to reset my expectations and think of him as just an FWB, if anything.

  4. To be fair, he didn’t choose his FWB over you last night. He didn’t cancel her for you, which is slightly different.
    But the choosing TV over you? I don’t know. I would probably feel hurt, but maybe it’s his way of disconnecting and then be available for you and really be “here” during your conversation, clear his mind fro all the BS from the day?
    It may also be that he is cautious because he knows that you are on the rebound, and rebound relationships are often not the best… Maybe that’s his way of protecting himself.
    As I said, I have no idea.
    What I do know is that love doesn’t happen like that. Or not always. It’s not always that you fall head over heels with someone on the first date.
    No matter what, do what feels right for you. πŸ™‚

    • Well, he chose her over me depending on when he made his plans. Now, he could have been doing something else last night. I don’t know for sure he was with her.

      And yes, I do know that he probably needs to wind down a bit first, especially so he can be “present”. But it’s hard to suck that up.

      For sure he is cautious about me being on the rebound. He told me as such. I’m sure that’s partly why he’s not willing to give up his FWB.

      I do worry that I’m just numb. To anyone.

      • True, if he made his plans after having talked to you. But maybe he has a set day to meet her and this was prearranged? And as you say, you don’t know exactly what he was doing.

        I think, especially with him suffering from ADHD, time to unwind may be important. But I agree, it can be hard to understand and/or accept.

        I am pretty sure him not leaving his FWB IS because you’re on the rebound.

        And no, you’re not numb. You’re grieving a relationship. πŸ™‚

        Bottom line is: if you were smitten with him, any reason why he needs time to unwind, or nights alone without you, you would probably not care that much. Since it bothers you that much, it’s probably because you are not ready to be in a relationship, at least not with him, no matter how promising it looked in the beginning. But you don’t need me to tell you that πŸ˜‰

  5. I think casual sex can be great, and obviously Andrew is not giving you what you need, but perhaps someone else can. You deserve to feel fawned over and cherished and you’ll find that in someone more than Andrew. At the very least, find someone who let’s you know they are thinking of you and that you are more important than a TV show. In the meantime, enjoy that casual sex… Maybe you’ll meet some no expectations sex on your girls night!!

    • Thank you, Hollie. I agree that I need more from something that isn’t just casual sex. But even getting that is a problem – I’m REALLY starting to resent the new single-parent limitations on my time. And having to hear my ex tell me he doesn’t understand why being a single parent is a big deal makes me furious…

      • Sounds like your ex and my ex would get along, which also means it sounds like I would not like your ex. It infuriates me to know end when people, men and women, feel like when you become a mom you should not ever feel like you need to do anything else besides be a mom. Personally I feel that time to myself makes me a better mom. I’ve had to sacrifice so much in the name of motherhood, and my ex husband just doesn’t get it.

  6. Answering your last questions: No, it’s not terrible to “want” those things. It may be terrible to “expect” them. It just feels to me like you should take it down a notch. You do come of a tad bit needy at times.

    • I guess one thing I have trouble with is when someone starts off one way, and then things change. I know it just is how it is sometimes, but I don’t like it. And you are right, I am a “tad” needy πŸ™‚

      • You’re certainly not wrong for wanting some kind of regular contact. In this day and age with smart-phones, it should be really easy to reply back to texts as quickly as possible, even if it’s just to say “I’m busy right now.”

  7. One of my favorite sayings is that if you never expect anything, you can’t be disappointed. People tend to take this the wrong way and ask, “What, I don’t have the right to expect (add something here)?” I maintain that they do… but what usually happens when you expect something and it never shows up?

    It’s not as much a lowering of expectations as it is being neutral about stuff, i.e., in your situation, if he does, fine – if he doesn’t, well, it ain’t the end of the world. With casual sex, if I have an expectation, it’s that I’m gonna get laid and even then it’s not “real” until we’re actually doing it because people have been known to change their minds at the very last moment. Even with someone I’ve had casual sex with before, I don’t expect anything other than getting laid (but not really) because I very much dislike being disappointed when my expectations didn’t bear fruit.

    So I don’t expect anything. It’s not that people are untrustworthy but too much shit happens to burst the bubble of expectation so if happens, fine; if it doesn’t, that’s okay, too, because I didn’t expect things to turn out as I wanted them to in the first place and I wasn’t being pessimistic about it.

    • Have you always been able to not have expectations? I’m not good at that. I know in my head what I want – and I don’t think it’s too much to ask – but so far, it’s providing really elusive. I don’t know how to lower my expectations, unless I really don’t give a shit about the person. And at that point, I’m less keen on hanging out or sleeping with them!

      • I’d say that I taught myself how to do it and developed the “logic” that goes with it. It’s not really lowering expectations as much as it is not counting people to do what I may want them to do; if they do, fine, but if they don’t, well, okay. When it comes to sex – casual or otherwise – I never expect it to happen until it actually does; likewise, while I might want to see that person again, I don’t expect them to keep any “promises” they may make about that.

        If they do, fine, but if they don’t, it’s not the end of the world. It’s not being negative but I know that things just aren’t always gonna happen the way I want or expect them to and when they don’t, I’m not disappointed and I try took have a plan in case they don’t!

      • I think it’s more a matter of being open for things to happen, but continuing to live your life. I experienced something like that when I went to visit a faraway country where I knew the standard of living was going to be very different from my regular standard. I went there thinking: “any experience, good or bad, will be an Asian experience”. I had plenty of experiences πŸ™‚

        Now, I don’t want to sound like a know it all, because you know for a fact that I have no clue as to how to navigate dating. But I think that’s what kdaddy was trying to say. πŸ™‚

  8. Ann,

    It isn’t getting easy for your emotionally, but you seem to be getting your head and heart to a healthier state.

    I don’t want to compare because we are all unique, but I see that you and I are very similar. I can’t say that I would have gone about things as you did if I was in the same situation (from the beginning of the end of your marriage to this point), but the idea of having sex with someone with little or no expectations is strange. Obviously, I have never been with anyone besides my husband, but I can’t say that I haven’t thought about what things would be like if something changed. I do know what I need in my relationship and sex is very key and PART of what I need. I want and need to know that I am his and that he is giving me all of his heart (which includes him being part of other aspects of my life and allowing me to be in his).

    There were times that I didn’t have that in Will when he was struggling with his personal issues. I never considered leaving him when he was struggling, but feeling secure and confident in our relationship just wasn’t there for me and I thought about what that meant and I really needed to convey to Will what my needs are and what I needed from him. Honestly, I felt no desire to have sex with him and I withheld myself from him because of his mental absence (I recently came clean about this with him). What this tells me is that I don’t think that I am capable of just sex (fantasies aside) without some level of commitment. Fortunately for us, our marriage has never been better and Will and I are beyond the difficulties (or at least better equipped to handle them when or if they resurface).

      • Thank you, Ann. It hasn’t been an easy road for either of us.

        But for you, I can’t help but try to think about where you are with this and how you can get to where you want and clearly need to be. I just seems that what you are doing now isn’t the right way to achieve that. I can’t imagine that an FWB or a one-night stand can be come someone who respects and loves you enough to give you all of himself and expects the same in return.

  9. Eliminating or closeting expectations is so difficult but once you start to master it, the freedom it gives you is liberating. It’s not easy because in the back of your head you might still have that expectation, but practice, practice, practice. You can’t really be disappointed in something you weren’t expecting.

    Btw, I’ve recently been reading all of your past blogs to get caught up and your stories are addicting! πŸ™‚

    • I will practice but I don’t think it will be easy. I hold myself to a very high standard and it’s hard to not do so with others – especially those in whom I am interested.

      I’m so glad you are enjoying my blog posts!! Thank you so much.

      • Oh it’s not easy. It was extremely hard for me and I can’t say it will always work. I think it’s dependent on the situation. But I went into the situation with very little – to no expectations and it was practically heaven for me when things unfortunately didn’t work out. I didn’t spin out emotionally or mentally like I probably would have otherwise. Good luck to you either way!

  10. Some food for thought. The “persuer” cannot be the “persued”. With Andrew or anyone else, you have to give them a chance to chase you. If of course chasing is what you want. And after reading this and other posts of yours it sounds that way. Perhaps if you were a tad more elusive?

    • Your last line is EXACTLY what I have been thinking about for Ann.

      Ann – it is interesting that I just read this post for the first time today: http://annstvincent.com/2014/06/02/stop-complaining-about-lack-of-good-men-its-just-statistics/ and thought about what you have been engaging in with FWBs.

      “Is it terrible that the one thing I really want to do is the repeat threesome with him and Jason that we have scheduled for two weeks from now? And that I really want to take him up on his offer to bring me to a β€œdown to fuck” event at a local swingers bar, which is for women who want to have sex with multiple men in one evening?”

      Terrible? No. But think about it.

      I think that I love and enjoy sex as much as the next woman, but I can’t help but think that while you are pursuing this sort of outlet for *one* of your needs, you are removing yourself from being available for the man who wants to love you as you deserved to be loved.

      Can you truly pursue both avenues (two very different directions) simultaneously?

      • Now THAT I can totally agree with. At least from my point of view. I think I’d have trouble being in a FWB relationship and look for love. But hey, I’ve been in the desert and know what it’s like to crave touch. And I’m also thinking she might as well experience with men who are willing. Because once she is settled with the one, who is to say that he’ll agree with her pursuing those activities? I mean, my ex didn’t even want to consider spanking. Let someone else into my bed? You must be kidding!

        • True, Dawn,

          But I have a sense that Ann will know when the right person finds her and she finds him. Who is to say that she is going to want other people in her bed? Who is to say that he isn’t going to be open to that if she (and he) does – which I doubt considering everything that she has been sharing about Andrew and what has been transpiring between them and playing out in Ann’s mind.

          Will and I have talked numerously and at length about opening things up. Neither of us is ready and it with how things are between us (very exciting and we are continuing to grow and explore each other), we might just be resigned (this is a positive) keep things uncomplicated and truly enjoy each other to the fullest. What I get with him is someone who I can entrust my heart to, completely and he does the same with me. It was not easy for us to get to this place but it is certainly worth the difficulties. We still have a lot of growing to do, even after three decades together.

          • It’s all true. Only time will tell, for anyone of us.

            I was completely happy thinking I would have only one man in my sex life. But then, I realised that he was treating me like crap, so I left him. But believe me, I am still mourning that fact…

          • I understand the mourning. But what you are mourning is the that what you thought was a relationship or marriage was one-sided and something that you wanted to believe in. He abused you and took advantage of you (and is still doing that to you).

            I hope that you can let go of that and embrace the good life that you have in front of you.

          • Now you really got me crying :-/
            I suppose it’s a good thing, a way of letting go. I just wish there was someone here to hug me right now.

          • I would be there in a heartbeat and so would Will. For now, a big virtual hug is the best that I can do for you, sweetie!

          • There is a real difference in my mind because being in a committed relationship where you occasionally share your bed with others, but ensure you are connected before, during and after, and being in an open relationship. I have no interest in the latter. But the former could be a place I could go – but it has to be predicated on an existing, understanding, and committed relationship.

          • I truly hope that you find exactly what works for you both (when he and you discover each other).

            I don’t know that Will or I could get to a point (either of your scenarios) but we continue to talk about this at least (in spite of our misfire).

            Ann, *HE* IS out there.

          • I have never tested my theory – well, I know “open” doesn’t work – but haven’t had occasional sharing. It’s one of the things that is appealing about Andrew. He would totally do that.

        • Dawn, you’ve hit on a key question for me, which is what I might want when I finally am in a committed relationship. I fear so much that I will end up in the same situation as I did with my ex. I also fear I will meet an otherwise great guy who is not as sexual as I. I mean, I’m not close to having that problem, but it’s on my mind for sure.

      • I can’t really pursue any avenues right now…I met someone on Tinder a few weeks ago and couldn’t even find a time to meet him for coffee. My priorities are my son, family, and friends, so since I only have one night a week when I am free, my choice is not to date some strange guy first. I don’t really have the time to spend on the online dating sites, nor do I have the emotional strength to deal with all the associated BS of trying to date. The thing that also makes the stuff with Andrew more difficult is he has a lot more freedom with his time. I’m stuck at home most nights with my son after he has gone to bed – and my only options are phone calls or someone willing to come over when my son is asleep. But I can definitely not have mindblowing loud sex…my place is too small for that :/

        • I can relate. I am Sooooo glad that I only have my kids every other week in that respect. Allows me some fun ‘me’ time. Though I DO miss them when they’re away. But there is no way I could have the intense, loud sessions I enjoy when they’re not here!

          • Right, and that’s what I had for a year and it was amazing. It was the perfect balance and allowed me to get my life back. And now it’s gone. It would almost have been better to not ever have had the freedom. When my ex returns it will happen again, but it’s likely 2 years before he comes back.

          • Or you ask your mom if she can watch him more often. Or you find a friend who is dying for a night without children at hers, eithre to go and date or to spend quality time with her hubbie. And you take her child one night a week and she takes your once a week too πŸ™‚

          • It’s very true, and I do leverage my parents and nanny. My challenge is I often have work events, or sometimes other evening events, and then I’m reluctant to add another night when I don’t see him.

            As it is, I see him for maybe 30 waking minutes in the morning and we have 90 minutes at night. I often don’t get home for dinner.

            Sigh.

            I have to find a way forward, I totally hear you.

          • How about doubling up on those evening away? Getting the babysitters to stay overnight and go on dates after the work event? I know a poly amorous blogger who does that, so as not to take time from his family life.

        • Damn. I really feel for you. Don’t take this wrong, but your situation is really demonstrating how good my marriage and unusual my relationship is. I need to value everything about us and continue to work at it for me, him and our kids.

          • Dawn, he divorced himself from you early on and lied to you about his heart. No one should endure what you did. Going back is not an option.

          • Reading your love and support brings tears to my eyes. You won’t be surprised if he doesn’t see it that way and never hesitated letting our children or myself know what he thought of me.
            To him, I obviously am the only one responsible. It is too painful to look at himself and see he failed, that he isn’t perfect. Some days, I am angry. Most days, I pity him.

          • Someday soon, you will be emotionally free from him and he can no longer do or say anything that can cause you grief. Someday, you will no longer care what he thinks.

          • I don’t really care about what he thinks. My problem is that he shares that with our children. As long as they are too young to see that it was abuse, he will be able to cause me grief.
            It’s hard everytime your little ne comes at you and says “Mom, Daddy said this about something you did. Is it true?”. “Mom, Daddy said you’re too lazy to work, it’s not that you’re really injured”. Every single time, the pain is unbearable, yet somehow, you put a smile on your face and pretend you’re not hurt and try to explain what the truth is. At least what *your* truth is.

          • Will’s dad did the same thing with he and his sibling toward Will’s mother. From what my MIL told me, that was pretty bad. You would be surprised that the two of them are very friendly towards each other and we have family gatherings for birthdays and holidays that include both of Will’s parents.

            There is hope once the wounds heal.

          • I am sorry to hear about your mum. The facts of my life right now as we have already faced one of our parents’ rapid decline and illness. Losing our parents is something that we are not prepared for. How could we ever be prepared?

            I am glad that your mother is fine. And I have to say that you are the one testing yourself more than any outside forces.

            I would hug you today, if I could.

          • Frankly, I don’t think there ever will be hope as long as his mother lives. After that? I do hope we can at least be civil for weddings and christenings if there ever are any.
            When I was still living there, our youngest asked if we were going to remain friends. I said I hope. There was a big silence to my right that said it all…

      • Sorry the one other thing is that part of my decision earlier this week was that I am opening my mind back up to other possibilities, spending time with others (who are already in my wheelhouse)…the Comedian and Lawyer, in particular.

    • I guess it depends on how you define “chasing”. I don’t like playing games, and sometimes it’s a fine line between making sure you don’t come across needy and too available, versus deliberately withdrawing to have someone come after you. However, I definitely believe if they want you, they will respond and you don’t have to hound someone to get them to engage.

  11. I know I am younger than you but this is what my short experience says :If someone wants to make time for you, they will make time for you. I don’t intend this to sound harsh or anything but I think we (women) complicate and think too much (yes me included). There’s also the possibility that he’s actually trying to contact you less regularly on purpose because he got the vibe that you are getting attached (even if you aren’t) but I don’t want to go into much speculation. I am probably the opposite of expecting. I always expect the worst of people, I think I miss having some hope.

    • I couldn’t agree with you more. I wrote a post on ways we fool ourselves: http://wp.me/p3SI98-8n – and I absolutely agree that it’s possible he is making space because of that. Or it could just be that he’s busy. The think that frustrates me is that the more I think it’s the former, the more he will pull away. If I just chalk it up to his being busy, and not be in constant contact (which I’m not at this point), then it might have a better outcome.

  12. I think most things in life should be done without expectations. It’s when we place expectations on people (often unfair or, even, unknown) that we get hurt. Unless someone has actually agreed to a particular thing and stated that they will meet that expectation, you’re just opening the door to not have that thing met. And, even when people say they will do things, it’s probably actually better to not have the expectation that they will.

    I really that sounds pretty gloomy but, on the other hand, it’s always a celebration when people do things without the expectation being placed on them.

  13. Your inner monologue literally caused me to “LOL” in Subway. I’m glad you’re realizing all if this…women like us just aren’t built for an “in-between” situation

  14. Hi Ann,

    I’ve been a lurker for a while because I generally freak out at the idea of approaching people, but I decided to brave a comment at this entry.

    I’m not sure things are as you think with Andrew. I could be completely wrong, of course, but I think he’s trying to keep a pace that will keep him safe by giving both of you time to be sure of what you want.

    Early on he said he’d eventually be interested in a relationship. Then he said you have less to fear by his FWB than he had by you. Then he opened up in a way he admits he doesn’t do with his FWB.

    As I see it, he knows he wants you and could see exclusivity with you, but won’t throw away his alternatives until he’s sure of where you stand. What you see as choosing another woman over you, I see as him already having plans and not wanting to cancel at short notice. As for NCIS, sometimes, after a fucked up day at work, I might prefer an episode of The Blacklist to mind-blowing sex. Sometimes, you just need to unwind. Alone.

    As I said, I may be completely off. I have my occasional rose-colored glasses day. And of course, regardless of what he wants, what matters is what you want.

    Also, nice to meet you πŸ™‚

    Sotia

    • Hello Sotia and welcome πŸ™‚

      I am so glad you took the time to comment and hope you hang around here for a while.

      I dont think you are completely off at all – and its the possibility of the options you lay out that have kept me off balance. I think what you describe is entirely feasible….and I dont want to be the woman who creates a whole bunch of drama. I will leave it in my head and on this blig πŸ™‚

      • Thank you, it’s good to be here πŸ™‚

        I don’t think asking for what you want creates drama. The danger with ill-defined relationships is that people try to fit their expectations within perceived limits.

        After a wild youth, I can honestly say I’ve only met one man who was always open and honest about what he thought and wanted, and I married him. Andrew reminds me of my husband. He doesn’t seem to hide things. Maybe asking him openly about the things you want to know will be good. If he considers it drama, he’s not worth your time (except during sex, where he’s apparently just fiiiine).

        The thing again comes down what you want. Whatever it is, you should go for it. We need to stop using other people’s wishes as a reference point.

        (Dude, when I start, I can’t stop *returns to lurking mode*)

        • I’m glad you are here!!

          Yes, completely agree with you – whenever I have asked him something, he has replied openly and honestly. He’s quite mature from that perspective which is one of the very appealing things about him.

          He is also careful – so he’s not someone to just rush down a garden path into a relationship… so that’s something I actually admire. It’s hard, because on the one hand of course you want to feel that someone adores you, but if he wanted too much too fast, that would be a turnoff for me.

          Ultimately, I guess what I’m saying is I admire the honestly and the caution. I just don’t always like how it manifests itself.

  15. Ann, you can and should have an “expectation of being treated well, of being adored.” You deserve it. Andrew is lucky to have you. Sorry, I guess I’m in a feisty mood tonight — but I do think you deserve the respect.

  16. Not that I’m an expert in the area and with my recent breakup, I’m probably more in need of asking for advice instead of giving it. However, I thought I might at least give you my perceptions and then you could take them with a huge handful of salt.

    When I first found your blog, I admired the fact that you seemed to be able to pursue your carnal nature with different men (some strangers) without getting into messy, emotional relationships. If I wasn’t such a chicken-shit – I’d like to do the same. But with Johnny and then Andrew, you seemed to fall into an emotional quagmire – and you fell fast. It made me wonder why – why you would go from this one extreme to the other? Especially with Andrew – I mean, you just met the guy and already you are in spending so much energy and angst trying to analyze how he feels about you, why he acts the way he does, who he is with, when he made the plans, what that means about YOU when he would rather do something else than be or talk with you, should you be feeling this way, etc, etc.

    I hesitate to say this because I don’t want you to be offended or hurt your feelings (because I really like you!), but it seems a bit obsessive and desperate. Again – you JUST met this guy – and while I applaud that you want to have an open line of communication with him – it sounds as though he is withdrawing – perhaps because he is worried about this behavior as well? It sounds like he is perfectly happy with a more casual relationship – complete with FWB. I’m just wondering if you’ve thought about why you are getting so possessive with someone who is essentially an acquaintance. Granted, he sounds like a great fuck – and I’m totally jealous of your upcoming three-way and visit to the sex club (again, because I do not have the bravery to do either) – but you went into this with the expectation (on both sides) of having a duxk-buddy and nothing else – right?

    I’m wondering if you need to take some β€œme” time and figure out what you really want – casual sex, or a relationship? Not to say there can’t be both (if you find a guy who is also in the same place and is open to swinging or something) – but perhaps it’s time to get clear with what you really want/need from a man – and then figure out if there is anything different you need to do to meet the kind of guy who is in the same place. I would suggest something radical – like no men, or dating without sex for a while – but then your blog would be as mundane as mine πŸ˜‰

    The bottom line is that I hate to see you going through such angst, my dear Ann – and I’d hate to see it turn into a pattern where you are happy/sad based on the perception of how things are with a man at any given time.

    • Thank you a million times over for such a thoughtful and caring response. I’m going to respond to most of this in a post, actually. Will probably go up tomorrow if I can squeeze in the time to finish it today.

  17. you know what…I think he doesn’t care enough about you. Of course, I don’t know you well and your story and that’s just an assumption, but from this post I can see that maybe he treats you casually. It seems like you are putting a lot of effort into communicating with him and he’s just not that interested.
    Don’t you think you deserve better and also a piece of mind?
    As to the casual sex, think hard if you really want it and if you are capable to do that? Some people aren’t and it makes them feel bad about themselves.

    • I am absolutely capable of casual sex, there’s no question in my mind. The trick for me is having it with someone where I don’t see any potential. If there is potential then I go down that path where I want to capitalize on that potential.

      So really, it’s situational for me. Put me with a sexy guy who I know there’s not chance I want to be with him for more than sex? Bring it on.

What do you think?